The Geography Thread

[Shapley]

I figured I'd start a place to put geograpical snippets that don't belong anywhere else.

I was perusing the news today and came upon an article which stated that the Russian republic of Kalmykia is Europe's only Buddhist nation.

Is anyone other than me stunned to learn that Europe includes a Buddhist nation?

You're supposed to learn something new every day, and I did, so I guess I can go home now.

V/R
Shapley

[Catmando]

I figured I'd start a place to put geograpical snippets that don't belong anywhere else.

I was perusing the news today and came upon an article which stated that the Russian republic of Kalmykia is Europe's only Buddhist nation.

Is anyone other than me stunned to learn that Europe includes a Buddhist nation?

You're supposed to learn something new every day, and I did, so I guess I can go home now.

V/R
Shapley

Kind of doesn't surprise me Shap. Russia is a highly diverse nation, culturally, religiously. Similar in many ways to how Canada is.

[Schmeelkie]

of course, I thought Russia was offically Asia, not Europe - Wasn't sure what happened when the USSR broke up - some of those new nations might better be considered 'Europe' and others 'Asia'... anyone know where that dividing line is?

If we're collectively stumped, I'll email my college friend who we always referred to as 'Geography Dan'. His version of a study break senior year was to draw and label a map of the world on two poster boards on the back of our apartment's bathroom door. Only way I had heard of the island nation of Kiribati....

[Shapley]

The Republic of Kiribati didn't exist when I was in school, but I'm familiar with it from reading sailing books. The republic includes the Line Islands, so called because of their proximity to the equator. Fanning Island and Palmyra are popular stops for trans-Pacific sailors.

Norwegian Cruise Lines offers a stop at Fanning Island as part of their longer Hawaiian Islands cruise packages (10- and 11-day cruises). It's just about due south of the Hawaiian Islands.

It's just a string of atolls, mostly abandoned by phosphate mining companies years ago and thus left with little or no economic means of support, but very popular with ocean cruisers and scuba divers.

V/R
Shapley

[Nicole Marie]

The Ural or Riphean Mountains and Ural River is the best line to use. But that leaves many courties along this line sitting on the fence. Most look at the politics of a country to determine if they are Europe or Asia. Most of the people of Azerbaijan live in Eastern Europe, but many do not consider themselves European based on politics. Instead they feel they are in the South Caucasus and Southwest Asia. Then there is Turkey. They too are on the line but they want membership in the EU (which will never happen until they clean up their human rights violilations).

To answer the USSR question - It's messy. When the USSR split up you ended up with three states - Russia, those went the "European" route like the Baltics, Belarus, Ukraine etc and the Asian states. There also the states in the South Caucasus (Azerbaijan) and Central Asia.

I always had a feeling Europe wanted a more clear definition too. When talk of starting the EU was popping up there was heavy debate on the geography of a country to be considered part of the EU. Last I heard they left it open and left for vote when a country applies. Not sure on that though.

So... most map makers use the Urals. But you will find maps that look at politics and popular opinion too.

Here's a good map: http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys ... rlarge.htm

[Shapley]

The problem is that Europe desperately wants to be a continent, even though it isn't. In order to propogate the myth of a European continent, they draw an arbitrary line that separtes the Eurasian continent into Europe and Asia. Trouble is that, like everything else, the Europeans can't agree on where to draw the arbitrary line.

When I was in school, it was easy. The Soviet Union was in "Asia" and everything on the Continent, as well as the islands in close proximity, were in "Europe". Then the Soviet Union collapsed, and those countries, which had been "European" before then, wanted back. So the arbitrary line, which had almost been defined for all those years, drifted Eastward, and if it could ever actually be drawn, it would look about as confusing as the International Date Line. (Which, BTW, since the creation of the Republic of Kiribati, contains a bulge which extends Eastward along the equator to a point East of Hawaii.)

V/R
Shapley

[Catmando]

Sorry to seem like a real dunce, but I always thought Europe IS a continent?

[Shapley]

"Middle East" is another confusing term. What's it the middle of? It's in the Southern Northern Hemisphere, The Western Part of Asia, And a little West and South of the Middle of the Eurasian Continent.

I suppose they are in the middle ground of the junction of Europe (depending on where it begins), Asia (depending on where it ends), and Africa. But they're definitely not in the Middle of the East, if anything they are in the Western East.

We used to use the term "Near East", but that was even more confusing, particularly since Eqypt, which was more probably "The Eastern part of the Northern Southern Continent" was considered part of the "Near East".

I suppose it made some sense depending on where you're reference point was, but it seems to me that most Europeans would have found Russia to be nearer to them on the Eastward side than most of the "Near East". On top of which, for us Americans There are lots of parts of the East that are nearer to us than the "Near East", except that you have to go West to get to them.

[Shapley]

Cat,

When I was in school, We were taught that Europe was part of the Eurasian Continent, because a continent was defined as a "large landmass surrounded by water". I don't recall how large the landmass had to be to be continent, but Australia fit the bill (7,000,000 sq. miles), while Greenland (2,000,000 sq. miles) didn't make the cut, so I suppose it would be somewhere around 5,000,000 sq. miles.

Keep in mind that we had to dig ditches at Suez and Panama for Africa and South America to be seperate continents.

It seems now that 'continent' has been redefined, according to Websters: one of the six or seven great divisions of land on the globe b capitalized : the continent of Europe -- used with 'the'
In other words, the definiton of 'continent' is "One of the Continents", the definiton now being as fuzzy as the line that seperates them.

V/R
Shapley

[shostakovich]

Count on Shap to start new controversies.

"Middle East" is definitely a misnomer. I think it's approximately what used to be called "Near East", the westernmost, nearest to Europe, part of Asia. But I think we're stuck with it.

I agree "Eurasia" should be considered one continent, but it isn't. We're stuck with that, too.

Thanks to Nicole's map, we can see the artificial border separating Europe from Asia. It's the line of the Ural Mountains, going south, which bends west for a bit, then south again into the Caspian Sea, and westward out of the sea to the southern shore of the Black Sea as far as Turkey. It's a VERY strange boundary.

Where the heck is Kalmykia?

Shos

[Shapley]

The Republic of Kalmykia stretches to the south-east of the European part of Russia between the Volga and Don rivers. Its geographical position is between 41°40/-47°35/ (northern latitude) and 44°50/ -40°10/(eastern longitude).

This, according the Kalmykian Embassy website

Here's a map.

V/R
Shapley

[shostakovich]

I googled "Kalmykia" and found it west of the northern part of the Caspian, definitely in Europe. Sure enough, they are primarily Buddhist. The pictures of some show Mongolian (Tibetan?) characteristics. They have a history of being moved around, chased out, brought back, etc. The people that occupied Kalmykia once were European. The people that live there now, judging from pictures, have mainly Asian ancestry.

So I learned something new today, too. Thanks, Shap.
Shos

[shostakovich]

Good thread. (Cheap post #3035. ------- But who counts?)

[Shapley]

But who counts?

Fortunately, B.com does, so I don't have to. That way I can be sure I'm maintaining my status.

[OperaTenor]

I haven't learned anything new yet today, so I guess I have to keep posting, maintaining my posting status.

[Shapley]

Ah! But I'm gaining. I figure as Altoid occupies a greater and greater part of your time, I stand a good chance of catching you by 2012, just in time for the end of the world as we know it.

My son is a teenager, and my daughter seems happy if I just visit her on occasional weekends, whereas Altoid looks to be high-maintenance (goes with the gender). I think your post-whoring days are numbered, and I may take the spotlight as soloist before you know it! (If you've ever heard me sing, and I know you haven't, you don't want that to happen!)

V/R
Shapley

[bignaf]

people living in Germany have mainly Asian ancestry. if you go far enough back. according to some theories.
Turks are actually a central Asian tribe. central Asia kept spouting out these nomadic tribes rraveling westward.

[OperaTenor]

Ah! But I'm gaining. I figure as Altoid occupies a greater and greater part of your time, I stand a good chance of catching you by 2012, just in time for the end of the world as we know it.

My son is a teenager, and my daughter seems happy if I just visit her on occasional weekends, whereas Altoid looks to be high-maintenance (goes with the gender). I think your post-whoring days are numbered, and I may take the spotlight as soloist before you know it! (If you've ever heard me sing, and I know you haven't, you don't want that to happen!)

V/R
Shapley

Why do you think I put her in preschool?

[Schmeelkie]

I've been seeing more stuff in places like Discover and Scientific American about tracing 'racial' categories. Have to admit I didn't read them closely, but it's out there in the literature. They can track ancestries through genetics (DNA and mitochondrial RNA). Know I read something about how an insane amount of people can trace ancestry to Gengis Khan. Apparently, in addition to conquering a big chuck of Asia, he was quite the ladies man.

Just looking forward to getting 3rd chair....besides, is there anything beyond soloist? Once you got there you wouldn't have anything to look forward to... maybe they'll make a 'conductor' status when OT hits 10,000 posts.

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

I think they made "soloist" up special for OT. The title does sort of imply that it's a singular honor, and I know it's new since the board change-over.

I, too, am waiting to see what happens when OT hits 10K. It's bound to be spectacular.