Welcome to 2003

[brickroot]

It became pejorative when it meant supporting the murder of babies, the lack of religion, and prolonging racism.

[shostakovich]

Hi Brickroot. "Murder of babies", a.k.a. "pro-choice"? "Lack of religion", a.k.a. "open-mindedness"? EJA has claimed we are all "religious" in our beliefs about God, even atheists. It's an interesting take, in whose light "lack of religion" can be part of a religion.<P>As for "prolonging racism", I'm at a loss about how "liberalism" does that moreso than "conservatism".<P>Also, labels are a great convenience, but they are dehumanizing. If you live up to what you think A LABEL MEANS, you are in a straight-jacket. If you don't, the label is unfair. Worst of all, a label means different things to different people. Damn that convenience, though. Labels have a lot of appeal to those of us who are lazy thinkers. I'm guilty of that, myself. I've decided what the label "Classical Music" should mean, and the straight jacket fits fine. <BR>Shos<p>[ 02-04-2003: Message edited by: shostakovich ]

[Nicole Marie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brickroot:<BR><STRONG> the murder of babies</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Stay the hell out of my uterus.

[brickroot]

Racism- affirmative action<P>I agree w/ the label thing, I was only using it for practicallity in a moment of hurry. I have some very liberal ideas, and may claim to be a liberal myself, but those I just mentioned are not among them. Away w/ labels, I say also.<P>Nicole- What??

[OperaTenor]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by shostakovich:<BR><STRONG> <BR>Also, labels are a great convenience, but they are dehumanizing. If you live up to what you think A LABEL MEANS, you are in a straight-jacket. If you don't, the label is unfair. Worst of all, a label means different things to different people. Damn that convenience, though. Labels have a lot of appeal to those of us who are lazy thinkers. I'm guilty of that, myself. I've decided what the label "Classical Music" should mean, and the straight jacket fits fine. <BR>Shos<P>[ 02-04-2003: Message edited by: shostakovich ]</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Aside from seconding the above quote, I belive now is the time for me to run screaming from this thread as it is getting way too political, volatile and fairly unrelated to what I feel we're about on this board (call me chicken if you like. I have my opinions about all this stuff as well, I just don't feel we'll accomplish anything productive by firing volleys at each other over this stuff.).<P>If someone could be so kind as to inform me when the smoke clears from this one and "The Drums of War" as well......<P> <P>(I'm thinkin' it'd be kinda nice to hear from Henry right about now...)<p>[ 02-04-2003: Message edited by: operatenor ]

[bigjoel]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nicole Marie:<BR><STRONG><P>Stay the hell out of my uterus.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Alas, if we could only get all women to say this....the abortion debate would be over....of course the human race would be as well!!!<P>

[garn]

<small>[ 09-12-2003, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: HenryRhenals ]</small>

[Nicole Marie]

No one will solve these issues. But to Brickroot - don't even touch the abortion issue. My generation of women (due to Roe v. Wade) have always had full rights to their bodies. We have a huge amount of choices and rights. Now all that is in danger - you will see a huge backlash if any of our rights are taken away. Take it to another board and let's try to get back to the issue at hand, classical music.

[garn]

<small>[ 09-12-2003, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: HenryRhenals ]</small>

[Nicole Marie]

Wanna explain this one?

[brickroot]

Nicole...you have rights over your own body, not that of another...and how does there being a "backlash" make any argument for abortion? There have, in fact, in the past been "backlash"'s against laws, but that doesn't mean they were unjust laws. The fact that a lot of people would be upset that they no longer have the false right to kill those who they feel are an inconvienience should not be considered in the slightest.

[Nicole Marie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brickroot:<BR><STRONG>you have rights over your own body, not that of another...</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you so stay the hell out of mine. Keep the law in place and let women have the right to choose.

[brickroot]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HenryRhenals:<BR><STRONG>As for abortion...<P>All humans are quite useless until they are properly educated.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>If that's not barbaric and elitist, what is? What does that imply anyway?

[BenMurphy6]

since when did this board become a soapbox for the political and religious views of any ultra-conservative/liberal firebrand with an internet connection? this thread has degenerated from an interesting debate to a series of close-minded, knee-jerk responses to nothing and about nothing, with few exceptions. <P>let's drop all of the pretenses of being an "internet community" for a minute. i'm not interested in hearing anyone's views on religion or politics (especially if it's not going to be civil and lucid, which it rarely is even under the best circumstances), and i'm betting most of you don't want to hear mine. <P>i enjoy discussing the arts and culture with all of you. my suggestion is to lock this thread before the left nukes the right, or vice-versa.

[brickroot]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nicole Marie:<BR><STRONG><P>Thank you so stay the hell out of mine. Keep the law in place and let women have the right to choose.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You're being so contradictory of yourself! "Choosing" violates the rights of another-you are KILLING another, that's not just taking any old right from someone, it's taking away the right to live. What makes you think you can impose your will over a baby and kill him/her?

[Nicole Marie]

I don't consider it alive. And what happened to the rights of the women? Doesn't her life count for anything?<P>And further more I am out of this conversation. I'd like to get back to discussions that are relevant for Beethoven Radio - Classical Music.<p>[ 02-04-2003: Message edited by: Nicole Marie ]

[barfle]

Hmmm, maybe I'll incur the wrath of some of you, and maybe I'll make some new friends, but....<P>I recognize there is room for debate as to whether or not a fetus is human. I have my own opinion, and, although I believe it to be reasonably well founded and precise, I'm aware that someone may have a better founded and precise definition that doesn't match mine. But we'll leave that for another time.<P>In the meantime, if someone wants to abort a pre-human fetus, I don't see how it's any of my business.<P>Abortion is messy, it's unpleasant, and it's controversial, all of which make it a lousy means of birth control. I would prefer if a woman didn't want a baby that she give it up for adoption, but that doesn't mean I have any right to tell her to do that (unless I was a participant in the pregnancy - that would make it my baby, too).<P>As far as HRH, Henry, brick, Joel, OT or anyone who hasn't expressed an opinion on this topic - what I care shouldn't change what you do, unless it affects me. Stick a label on that one if you want to.<P>Can we get back to something important, like gelato? :confused:<p>[ 02-04-2003: Message edited by: barfle ]

[OperaTenor]

Gelato, okay, I'm back in this fray now. Let's stay focused on this important stuff! <P>BTW, looks like I'm going to get the opportunity to get some this summer! We're putting on a singing tour & we're going to Prague, Vienna, Salzburg, Munich, Venice and Torre del Lago (Puccini's lakeside villa where he spent the last 30 years of his life - aka my high point of the trip), where we'll see a production of La Boheme' at the annual Summer Puccini Festival. <P>Can't wait to go-oh-oh-oh,<BR>and get some gelato-oh-oh-oh!<BR> <p>[ 02-04-2003: Message edited by: operatenor ]

[dkm32]

Hey, FirefighterBrad where are you?<P>We need to hose these people down.

[OperaTenor]

Don't hose me down (sung to the tune of Don't Fence Me In)! All I want to do is sing and have some gelato....