Classical Music newbie looking for some help

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Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby simsarge » Sun Apr 13, 2003 4:14 pm

I am in the US Army stationed stateside and I'm looking for some guidance. <BR>I'm enrolled in a local community college music 101 course and need to write a term paper. I think I want to do something interesting, upbeat and original. and believe I want to concentrate on classical music in and around the time of Beetoven. Our Professor is looking more for a time period piece more so than a specific composer, but I guess she'd be willing to listen to about anything. I am bascially a Classical newbie. I am looking for a little pointing in the right direction. And maybe a link or two. Any and All help would be appreciated....GREATLY :confused:
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby shostakovich » Sun Apr 13, 2003 7:21 pm

Hi Simsarge. "Interesting" and "Upbeat" can be done. "Original" is tough. How about composers who overcame adversity? Handel, Bach, and Delius went blind. Beethoven and Smetana went deaf. Yet they had the will and the ability to keep going. Since you're in the army, you might think about military heroes who overcame adversity to achieve greatness for comparison (this for the "original" slant).<BR>Hope this helps.<BR>Shos
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby simsarge » Sun Apr 13, 2003 7:36 pm

HMMMMMM<BR>Really good stuff. Thanks very, very much Sho ! :)
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby Nicole Marie » Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:01 pm

Tchaikovsky is always fun to write about. His battle with the Mighty Five is fun to look into.<P>Brahms is fun too since he was sleeping with Schumann's wife! (Gotta love soap opera type gossip!) There is a ton of interesting aspects of composers lives and the connection it plays into their music.
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby simsarge » Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:14 pm

Any clues as to where I can find some info? I found some "results" on the Library of Congress web site, but have no idea of how to access them. I like the T vs the Big 5 idea also. I think I could shmooze some bonus points from the Teach with that subject.
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby priya978 » Sun Apr 20, 2003 1:48 am

It interesting about Tchaikovsky too that he was gay and tried to hide it, but his straight relationships never worked out.<BR> :D
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby Molman » Sun Apr 20, 2003 3:15 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nicole Marie:<BR><STRONG>Brahms is fun too since he was sleeping with Schumann's wife! (Gotta love soap opera type gossip!)</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>He had the hots for Clara but I thought the scholarship out there was that it was rather like puppy love and Clara never reciprocated.
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby Molman » Sun Apr 20, 2003 3:18 pm

An interesting paper might be how people from different countries responded to the World Wars (either one). If you look at works written during, say, the late 30s and early 40s and from different countries you will see striking distinctions which give some insight into different national characters. Compare Vaughan-Williams' 4th with Shostakovich's 8th or any from the American school.
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby EJA » Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:23 am

With all due respect to HRH, I believe that the details of the relationship between Johannes Brahms and Clara Schumann are not known. There is a great deal of speculation, yes, but it is no more than conjecture. Based on their writings, it seems they had considerable affection, respect and admiration for one another, but it remains possible that they kept their passions in check. I think that we should think twice before besmirching their reputations. <P>As far as musical responses to World Wars, I would recommend to your attention Camille Saint-Saens, <I>Cypres et Lauriers</I>, which I believe is his tribute to the end of World War I — a very lovely piece.
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby Nicole Marie » Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:49 pm

I believe they were sleeping together, there is strong evidence it was more than just puppy love. <P>As Schumann grew older he became more difficult to deal with, this was what pushed Clara more towards Brahms (many believe). He did attempt suicide over the relationship between Clara and Brahms. You don't try to off yourself if the wife is just chatting with a friend of the family.
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby Nicole Marie » Mon Apr 21, 2003 2:00 pm

I'm not aware of a full book dedicated to the Five and Tch but look into the individual members of the Five. They were: Balakirev, Borodin, Cui, Mussorgsky and Rimsky-Korsakov. They are also known as the "Mighty Handful", "Moguchaya Kuchka (mightly little heap)" and The Five. <P>They were named the Five in 1867 by Vladimir Stasov, the groups main ideologist. They celebrated Russian nationalism provided by models founded by Glinka and Dargomizhsky. Their musical doctrine also inspired composers outside of Russia like Berlioz, Schumann and Liszt.<p>[ 04-21-2003: Message edited by: Nicole Marie ]
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby Bones » Mon Apr 21, 2003 2:07 pm

It's true that Schumann attempted to kill himself by jumping into the Rhine in the middle of winter. But this is generally because he had a (purportedly inherited) condition which made him insane. He eventually was committed to an insane asylum and died there. I don't believe that the suicide attempt was ever linked to Brahms. <P>Brahms lived with the Schumans at one time and was much encouraged in his career by Robert and Clara. Everything I have read seems to point to a platonic relationship between Clara and Brahms. Brahms certainly had the hots for Clara, but Clara seemed to revel in her role as the wife (and later widow) of the Great Schumann. Most sources seem to conclude that Brahms maintained his deep friendship with Clara but respected Robert too much (and her in the role of widow) and didn't go further. <P>However, as any gentleman of the day would do, he would maintain that there was nothing between them, even if there was. So ....who knows?<p>[ 04-21-2003: Message edited by: Bones ]
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby Bones » Mon Apr 21, 2003 2:14 pm

Nicole Marie said, "They celebrated Russian nationalism and founded the models that Glinka and Dargomizhsky would follow."<P>I hate to quibble, but Glinka, the "Father of Russian Music" predated the Five and was an inspiration to them as a group and Balakirev in particular. Glinka did not follow the Five<p>[ 04-21-2003: Message edited by: Bones ]
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby Molman » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:10 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nicole Marie:<BR><STRONG>I believe they were sleeping together, there is strong evidence it was more than just puppy love.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Please cite your source.
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby Nicole Marie » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:44 pm

Look at Clara's own compositions. Her composition "Jucunde" based on the poems of Hermann Rolett. The poems are based on "lifes sercrets". The continuous sixteenth-note broken-chord motion in the 3/8 sets up which some music thoelogians have felt shows the expression of a secret. Some feel it was her feelings from Brahms.<P>Also many people said that she took control of the hubby's compositions and works when he became ill because she loved him. She also had 8 kids to support and a husband with medical bills, taking control of his compositions and publications is a great way to pay those bills. <P>Some think she didn't bang Brahms, I think she did. Check out the book "Bach Beethoven and the Boys" that makes reference to the affair. <P>History also tells us that Brahms did confess his love to her after Schumann died but they never married. Many lyrics of Brahms songs were written directly for her.
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby Molman » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:04 pm

In other words, you believe it simply because you want to. Okay. I prefer to take the approach of not besmirching the memory of great people with cheap gossip.
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby Nicole Marie » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:07 pm

Lighten up. The possiblilty exsisted, it may have happend. You take the word of those that say it didn't and I take the word of those that believe it did. Take a quaalude.
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby Molman » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:10 pm

No, I don't believe gossip unless there is some evidence for it. I don't take anyone's "word" just because it meets my own preference. Grow up, you silly twit.<p>[ 04-21-2003: Message edited by: Molman ]
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby Nicole Marie » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:12 pm

DON'T get into a pissing match with me. I'm just stating that I believe one thing and you another, if you can't accept that, then that speaks volumes about you.
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Re: Classical Music newbie looking for some help

Postby Molman » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:20 pm

It speaks volumes about you. You are willing to accept COMPLETELY unsubstantiated gossip just because it tantalizes you. Perhaps your life is this shallow, but I prefer to not accept this kind of nonsense without some real proof.<p>[ 04-21-2003: Message edited by: Molman ]
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