9/11 Commission

[Serenity]

Can't you two just mud-wrestle to prove your point?

[OperaTenor]

Speaking for myself, if you want to see that, you should just go to the muddy part of the hippo exhibit at the zoo.

[piqaboo]

<giggling> posted by Shapley: "Clinton moved the millenium..."

This complaint on a board that counts the last post of the day at 11:59 rather than 12:00 pm.
Most of the US was going to celebrate on Dec 31, 1999, regardless of which party was in office.
Plus, there was that whole Y2K thing that wasnt waiting for 2001....

<still giggling>

[Shapley]

Republicans Call For Polygraph Test In Berger Probe

[piqaboo]

I usually just use a thermometer if Im determined to probe burgers.

[OperaTenor]

Well, the article reeks of partisanship, and the case has been settled for over a year.

What exactly is your point, Shap? Just another poke at the Clinton administration?

....and you talk about me not letting go of something?!

[Shapley]

The case hasn't been settled for a year. The revelations about Berger's hiding files at the construction site were relatively recent. The case was supposedly settled when he admitted that he 'inadvertently' destroyed some documents. Then we found out he intentionally took scissors and a shredder to them. He made an agreeement with them for community service and loss of clearance, part of which was that he agreed to take a polygraph on the nature of the documents and the extent of the thefts. The Justice Department has thus far not pressed the matter, and the Republicans have now sent a request that they do so. This is a new development, although we have no word on the Justice Departments response.

I posted the link without comment, how can that be a 'poke at the Clinton administration'?

V/R
Shapley

[OperaTenor]

In that you bring it up from time to time, like the Faux News-gobbling, tin foil-hatted, reactionary zealot who can't stop picking at a dead carcass you come across as by doing it.

And then follow it up by equivocating....

PS. He was convicted and sentenced on Dec 20, 2005. That was more than a year ago by my clanedar.

[Shapley]

This document was just issued January 8 of this year. You may be satisfied with the outcome of Mr. Berger's sentencing, but many people see unanswered questions which surround it.

For someone who put so much stock in the 9/11 commission report, you seem to be woefully unconcerned as to whether or not all necessary information was made available to commission to ensure an accurate outcome.

V/R
Shapley

[OperaTenor]

For someone who winks at GWB's lies and misleadings, along with the atrocities being committed in the name of the Untied States of America these days, you seem awfully obsessed with one simple crime.

[Shapley]

I'm still awaiting evidence of those 'lies and misdealings'.

I'm not obsessed with it. I posted a link to a recent occurance. All the Republicans in Congress supported the measure calling for the polygraph. That seemed significant. I offered no comment, merely posted the link. I don't see how that can be considered 'obsessive'.

You, on the other hand, seem perfectly willing to ignore actual, provable crimes by non-administration types in favour of unproven allegations against the current administration.

V/R
Shapley

[OperaTenor]

Of course, as soon as the Democrat-controlled Congress initiates investigations regarding the issues widley held the GWB administration has lied about, and of the programs carried out in violation of our Constitutional protections and rights, you'll cry, "Witch hunt!"

You read it here first...

[Haggis@wk]

Of course, as soon as the Democrat-controlled Congress initiates investigations regarding the issues widley held the GWB administration has lied about, and of the programs carried out in violation of our Constitutional protections and rights, you'll cry, "Witch hunt!"

You read it here first...

and you've yet to identify one lie that's not based on your opinion

[Shapley]

Of course, as soon as the Democrat-controlled Congress initiates investigations regarding the issues widley held the GWB administration has lied about, and of the programs carried out in violation of our Constitutional protections and rights, you'll cry, "Witch hunt!"

If it is a witch hunt, I'll call it a witch hunt. If not, I won't. I think I have already said on this board that I welcome a fair examination of the facts. One that would, of course, examine all the data, including some that might try to find its way to the shredder. I do support the concept that some classified documents should remain classified. This is hardly a partisan idea, as we know Clinton fought as hard as Presidents Bush and President Reagan to keep some information out of the hands of those that sought it. It's fair to challenge the legality of claims for access to such documents.

I have supported a fair examination of the facts because I believe the President has not lied, at least not in a way that mattered. (I've always maintained that the best of us are usually little more than 75% honest, and I believe the best of us are not usually found in Washington.) I've asked repeatedly for evidence of the lies and criminal wrongdoings this President is supposed to be guilty of, and all I get is opinion and innuendo. Bring on the facts.

However, I believe that even if the investigation clears this President, the response will be to disbelieve the investigation. Shos summed it up well elsewhere when he said, on another topic, "I won't even believe it if it 'happens'."

V/R
Shapley

[Haggis@wk]

Sandy Berger knew there were documents in the National Archives that showed the Clinton administration failed to do what it should have about al Qaeda and terrorism and he stole them and destroyed them. I don't see how any other conclusion is possible.

Given the ridiculous amount of coverage of the Libby non-leak this ought to be Watergate level, but somehow no.

Hmmm.

[piqaboo]

Kinda curious - since he stole and destroyed them (jail time due here), how do you know what was on them?

[Haggis@wk]

Kinda curious - since he stole and destroyed them (jail time due here), how do you know what was on them?

As I said, it was my conclusion. I can't see him sneaking out and destroying documents that were critical of the Reagan or first Bush presidencies, can you? Maybe he was doing Carter a favor?

Remember, he was viewing the documents that pertained to security actions taken (or not) during the millennium celebrations.

As a condition of his sentence he admitted that he destroyed documents but gave the impressions that there were other copies.... oops, not so, it now appears.

I urge you to read the link.

I'm certainly open to other opinions on what would motivate a man to take similar actions as this, especially an action that would conceivably risk jail and humiliation.

Just, ya know, guessing.

And considering the attention focussed on "PlameGate" (OT fairly frothed in anticipation of the Fitzmas gift...not his best moment) versus the "hoe hum" attitudes regarding Berger's activities you have to wonder at least a little.