Will Europe Survive?

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Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:00 pm

Even better is OE, which many NZers and Aussies take as a matter of course in their 20s.


OE??
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Postby dai bread » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:55 pm

Overseas Experience.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:55 pm

MUSLIMS: 'BAN' UN-ISLAMIC SCHOOLS


The Muslim Council of Britain, probably the most influential and well-connected UK Islamic front group, has laid out their demands for Britain’s schools to follow shari’a law—and not just for Muslim students.

Any ideas when we’ll start to see the same thing in Dearborn or other ISDs in Michigan?

Its like we WANT to lose our way of life…..Image
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Postby Shapley » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:36 am

I found this most enlightening:
And while the MCB insists that all British children should learn about Islam, it wants Muslims to have the right to withdraw their children from RE lessons dealing with Christianity and other faiths.
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Postby piqaboo » Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:19 am

I am hoping that the British gov;t is falling over itself laughing at this demand. whew.
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Postby jamiebk » Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:21 pm

Shapley wrote:I found this most enlightening:
And while the MCB insists that all British children should learn about Islam, it wants Muslims to have the right to withdraw their children from RE lessons dealing with Christianity and other faiths.


I agree that there is something disturbing about this, but stop and think how many people in the US have taken their kids out of school to attend Christian schools, alternative schools, home schools etc.

What's next...certified Muslim schools?
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Postby analog » Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:30 am

It's just sorta spooky when any cause announces openly it's their goal to rule the world. Love of power and hatred of self are somehow linked, and after it gets power the hatred runs amuck.



a.
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Postby BigJon » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:50 pm

piqaboo wrote:I am hoping that the British gov;t is falling over itself laughing at this demand. whew.

I suspect they are giving it serious consideration, based on the abominable prior PC decisions I've read about.
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Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:04 pm

A British study has found that almost 90% of UK Muslims think it’s the government that needs to change, not them: Muslims will not waver over veils.

And this Telegraph article is packed with linguistic inversions, as it asserts repeatedly that repressive clothing for women is somehow the equivalent of “freedom.”

Britain’s Muslim community overwhelmingly believes that women should be allowed to wear the veil, despite fears that it presents a barrier to integration, a study has found.

Muslims believe women should be free to wear veils
Almost nine in 10 Muslims think that any government moves to ban the veil would hurt social cohesion. [A veiled threat? —Haggis]

Schools already have the power to ask pupils to remove the niqab - which covers the entire face apart from a slit for the eyes - to improve safety, security and learning.

There have been calls for a wider debate on whether it is appropriate for the full veil to be worn in public at all. But a Gallup Poll to be published this week found most Muslims firm in the belief that Islamic women should be free to wear it.

While 55 per cent of all those polled thought that removing the veil was vital for integration, only 13 per cent of Muslims agreed.
Instead, they thought that the Government needed to change its economic and political policies toward Islamic countries and show greater respect to Islam.


This is what we are starting to see here. I thought we were not as far along as Europe but I'm beginning to have my doubts.
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Postby piqaboo » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:56 pm

jamiebk wrote:
Shapley wrote:I found this most enlightening:
And while the MCB insists that all British children should learn about Islam, it wants Muslims to have the right to withdraw their children from RE lessons dealing with Christianity and other faiths.


I agree that there is something disturbing about this, but stop and think how many people in the US have taken their kids out of school to attend Christian schools, alternative schools, home schools etc.

What's next...certified Muslim schools?


Absolutely you can take your kid out of public (or as they are called in the UK, private) schools and enroll them in one you pay for directly. Whats disturbing is forcing my kid, in the tax-paid school, to learn your religion while your kid swings his feet in the hallway anytime the subject of another religion comes up - say during European history, science class (galileo, copernicus) etc. This is very disruptive to the class.

Its also rather iron-curtain, since the reason given for not learning these things is that the knowledge of them might tempt a child from the increasingly strict and narrow path. As a friend once commented - there's no credit in not sinning, if there's no temptation to resist.
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Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:06 pm

jamiebk wrote:
Shapley wrote:I found this most enlightening:
And while the MCB insists that all British children should learn about Islam, it wants Muslims to have the right to withdraw their children from RE lessons dealing with Christianity and other faiths.


I agree that there is something disturbing about this, but stop and think how many people in the US have taken their kids out of school to attend Christian schools, alternative schools, home schools etc.

What's next...certified Muslim schools?


They already have them throughout the U.S. including pre-school. There's one down the street from me.

I have no problem with that. I DO have a problem if some of the literature used in those private school teach students that all other religions are false and it's okay to kill or steal from non-Muslims.

And I'm more than a little concerned that almost all the funding for those private schools comes from Saudi Arabia.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Postby barfle » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:20 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:A British study has found that almost 90% of UK Muslims think it’s the government that needs to change, not them:

Government of the people, by the people, for the people? What a radical idea!

Oh, wait. They're the ones we revolted against.
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Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:53 pm

barfle wrote:
Haggis@wk wrote:A British study has found that almost 90% of UK Muslims think it’s the government that needs to change, not them:

Government of the people, by the people, for the people? What a radical idea!

Oh, wait. They're the ones we revolted against.


I suspect 90% of British Muslim don't constitute a majority of the people....yet
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Postby barfle » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:18 pm

Haggis wrote:I suspect 90% of British Muslim don't constitute a majority of the people....yet

No doubt. But campaigning minorities is one of those elements of democracy that won't go away as long as democracy exists. If you value your freedom, you need to respect others' freedom as well.
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Postby Haggis@wk » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:18 pm

If you value your freedom, you need to respect others' freedom as well.


But that was the whole point of the story. They expect you to respect their "freedoms" while demonstrating they have no intention of respecting others freedoms.

And while the MCB insists that all British children should learn about Islam, it wants Muslims to have the right to withdraw their children from RE lessons dealing with Christianity and other faiths.

You have to admit that defining misogyny and female subjugation as "freedom" is worthy of Orwell’s “Minitrue”
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Postby barfle » Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:48 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:
If you value your freedom, you need to respect others' freedom as well.


But that was the whole point of the story. They expect you to respect their "freedoms" while demonstrating they have no intention of respecting others freedoms.

No, the point of the story you posted was banning the wearing of veils. It's like Texas telling RCC nuns they can't wear habits.
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Postby Haggis@wk » Sun May 13, 2007 11:45 am

No, the point of the story you posted was banning the wearing of veils.


No, it was this:

Instead, they thought that the Government needed to change its economic and political policies toward Islamic countries and show greater respect to Islam.



and this:

And while the MCB insists that all British children should learn about Islam, it wants Muslims to have the right to withdraw their children from RE lessons dealing with Christianity and other faiths.


Europe don’t need no steenking PATRIOT Act


VENICE, Italy - Security officials from Europe’s largest countries backed a plan Saturday to profile mosques on the continent and identify radical Islamic clerics who raise the threat of homegrown terrorism.
The project, to be finished by the fall, will focus on the roles of imams, their training, their ability to speak in the local language and their sources of funding, EU Justice and Home Affairs Commissioner Franco Frattini told a news conference after a meeting on terrorism.

Italian Interior Minister Guiliano Amato said Europe had extensive experience with the “misuse of mosques, which instead of being places of worship are used for other ends.”

“This is bringing about a situation that involves all of our countries and involves the possibility of attacks and developing of networks that use one country to prepare an attack in another,” Amato said.

The transit attacks in Madrid and London — along with several thwarted terror plots — have raised concerns across Europe about the susceptibility of disaffected young Muslims to the messages of extremist clerics.
British police have said the bombers in the July 2005 London suicide attacks listened to the sermons of Abu Hamza al-Masri, a radical cleric who was sentenced last year to seven years in prison for inciting followers to kill non-Muslims. Britain also recently ordered the deportation of a Jordanian-born cleric, Abu Qatada, accusing him of links to terrorism and being a threat to national security. Abu Qatada is appealing.

Adel Smith, a well-known Muslim activist in Italy, said mosques in Italy are already extensively monitored and called the EU plan discriminatory. “I think this is nonsense, I think mosques have been well monitored for some years,” he said in a telephone interview. “It is a form of religious discrimination


I said somewhere else that if Europe gets really scared the gloves would come off and the much-touted “European multiculturalism” would be exposed for the sham it is. Most of these countries allow the government incredible latitudes in handling “problems” than the U.S. could ever hope for even with the PATRIOT Act. I have seen the results when British (IRA) and German (bader-meinhof) antiterrorism organizations conducted “vigorous” interviews. You will never see the like in an American facility inside or outside the country.

I wonder if there is still time to reverse the trend; I’m not encouraged
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Postby barfle » Sun May 13, 2007 6:57 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:
No, the point of the story you posted was banning the wearing of veils.


No, it was this:

Instead, they thought that the Government needed to change its economic and political policies toward Islamic countries and show greater respect to Islam.

What was this link that you posted here all about?

I'm not debating the validity of the story saying Muslims teach that theft from non-Muslims is OK.
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Postby analog » Wed May 23, 2007 11:29 pm

In a doctor's office today I stumbled onto an innocent looking magazine, "Fountain".

Assuming it was some kind of gardening magazine akin to 'Birds & Blooms' I opened it.

It had some interesting pieces claiming that Arab explorers were here around 600AD, they'd set up schools and influenced Indian culture and architecture in the southwest US.
Columbus, it said, had a map to get across the Atlantic, provided by one John Bacon from his studies of ancient Arabic texts.
All that could be so, I am not knowledgeable to judge.

But stylistically the writing was so calm you'd think Mr Rogers must be their editor in chief.
It's a real soft sell.
http://www.fountainmagazine.com/article ... show=part1

The last essay, about Islam's unprecedented growth of late, ended thus:
From America to Europe, from the Balkans to the Great Wall of China and the heart of Africa, indeed, almost everywhere, faith, hope, security, and therefore, peace and contentment will be experienced once more under the umbrella of Islam; the whole of humanity will witness a new world order that is far beyond imagination; everyone will benefit to the extent to which their nature, disposition and mentality allow.

A declaration of Islamic intent to re-order the world? In Jonesboro Arkansas?
(Wikipedia, sorry) Jonesboro is the home to Arkansas State University and is a regional center for manufacturing, agriculture, medicine, education, and trade..........
.......It is also home to the Islamic Center of Jonesboro, which was built with funds provided by the government of Saudi Arabia. At the time of construction, the Islamic Center was one of the largest mosques in the southern United States. Currently, the mosque is operated by the Salafi sect of Islam...........................
Salafism differs from the earlier contemporary Islamic revival movements of the 1970s and 1980s commonly refered to as Islamism, in that (at least many) Salafis reject not only Western ideologies such as socialism and capitalism, but also common Western concepts like economics, constitutions, political parties, revolution and social justice.



Oh well, I can worry about it tomorrow.
Cogito ergo doleo.
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Postby piqaboo » Thu May 24, 2007 10:33 am

yoiks.
Currently, the mosque is operated by the Salafi sect of Islam...........................
Salafism differs from the earlier contemporary Islamic revival movements of the 1970s and 1980s commonly refered to as Islamism, in that (at least many) Salafis reject not only Western ideologies such as socialism and capitalism, but also common Western concepts like economics, constitutions, political parties, revolution and social justice.


Clearly, they dont entirely reject economics at the very highest levels, tho Im certain they preach it down. Ditto revolution tho they probably term it conversion.
Yuck.
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