31 Dead In University Shootings

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31 Dead In University Shootings

Postby Shapley » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:19 pm

Quod scripsi, scripsi.
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Postby Trumpetmaster » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:36 pm

Tragic... What the heck is going on in this wacko world....

:cry:
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Postby Shapley » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:43 pm

Virginia Tech police chief Wendell Flinchum said that emergency services had received a call at 0715 (1215 GMT) alerting them to a multiple shooting at West Ambler Johnston Hall.

He said that two hours later there was a second report of shooting, this time at Norris Hall.


I'm puzzled at how, two hours after a multiple shooting, and with the shooter still on the loose, an armed man was able to cross campus without being reported, enter another building unchecked, and shoot so many students before being stopped.

I'll be curious to see how this played out, once the pieces are put together.
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Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:52 pm

As with intital information following any sort of incident such as this there are going to be false stories and out and out mistruths (remember the stacks of bodies in the Superdome in NOLA?? oops)

That said, I've already seen one report from a witness who said the school apparently sent an email to the student body to stay in their rooms after the initial shooting and, apparently, some students didn't check their email before going to class? Excuse me? Email? And then when they did get to class they stayed?

There's going to be a lot of information in the next few days and much is going to be wrong probably including my point above.

I did see one newclip when the reporter said that that the entire campus is a "gun free" zone, well for honest people, I guess.

There was an attempt to allow students and employees to carry weapons but it failed: "A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly." That's unfortunate. Had the bill passed, things might have turned out differently, though we'll never know now.

My prayers and thoughts go out to the families and students involved. This has to be every parents nightmare when they send their children off to school. Many, many families have had their lives shattered today and I just hope we can learn what led to this, too often we don't.

A sad day indeed, Shapley..
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Postby Shapley » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:30 pm

Many, many families have had their lives shattered today and I just hope we can learn what led to this, too often we don't.


Nearly all of these shootings end with the death of the shooter, either by their own hand or at the hands of the police. That's too bad. I think it would be useful to capture one of them alive in order to try to find out just what, exactly, leads them to do such a thing. As it is, we are always left to try to piece together the thought process post mortem.

It is difficult, or should I say impossible, for sane men to understand the process that would lead a person to commit such an act. I do not know that, even if we had the opportunity to interrogate them, we would find out much more, but it would be worth the effort could we do so. As it is, God alone will be his interrogator.

My prayers, also, are with the victims and their families.

V/R
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Postby Shapley » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:33 pm

From the link posted by Haggis:

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."


Interesting...
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Postby Shapley » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:45 pm

The death toll has now been raised to 33. Two dead at the first shooting at the residence hall, and 31, including the shooter, at the hall of engineering.
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Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:16 pm

In combat (and civilian shooting sprees) you always expect to see more wounded that killed, the human body is a resilient machine and can take horrendous woundings and survive. In this event we have an incredible inversion of deaths to wounds and I wonder what that means.

Was the shoot an exemplary shooter? Did he make sure all his victims were dead? Presumably this was his first mass execution of humans and in all my experience people in this mindset generally recall very little of what they did at the time and rational thought is all but completely excluded in the adrenaline fuel insanity that grips such a person.

Regardless, the fact there is such a high inversion is going to be significant
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Postby piqaboo » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:33 pm

Oh crap. :cry:
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Postby analog » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:40 pm

I can only try to imagine.

I'd guess it's sorta like a suicide, trying to escape pain, and probably get some relief from feelings of powerlessness on the way out.

"Natural Born Killers" one redeeming point was it touched on the inner rage of the broken child. Normal personalities dismiss such fare as entertainment, but there's always that few for whom it runs close to their truth, to them it's reality. We build explosive psyches, program them, and recoil in shock when a short fuse ignites.

Could be a physical abnormality that stimulates aggression.
I think more often this last resort to rage is behavior learned very, very early.

All those kids. It is so very sad. :banghead: :banghead:
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Postby Catmando » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:49 am

What a devastating tragedy. My mind can't even process how this could even occur.

How can these families of the victims ever overcome this. :cry:

What a sad day.
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Postby Shapley » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:43 am

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Postby analog » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:36 pm

The Killer Has Been Identified, ...............

and, as is typical, he's a "Loner"....

"He was a loner," said Larry Hincker, spokesman for Virginia Tech university.

But details are gradually beginning to emerge about the 23-year-old South Korean, who was in the final year of an English degree at the university.

His creative writing was apparently so disturbing that his teacher referred him to the university's counselling service for help.

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, told the AP news service she did not personally know Cho but that the director of creative writing described him as "troubled".
..
from the 'Loner' behind massacre link at shap's article..
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Postby Catmando » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:02 pm

I'd consider myself a bit of a loner.....but I don't have any urges or inklings of going 'Rambo' at a University and killing 3 dozen people.

What a depressing event.......no matter where you are....you just never know what could happen. You wonder if there is anywhere safe in this world anymore. :(
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Postby Serenity » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:25 pm

:oops: I cut and paste the wrong link to the wrong thread. I meant to post the link to the Save Internet Radio Thread as the latest news. My apologies.
Last edited by Serenity on Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:37 pm

Serenity wrote:Maybe he found out about this story early:

http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?s ... 1009A5NP5I



Serenity,
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant to link to something else rather than what you did link to. If not, I can't say I see any relevance to the linked story and the evil that transpired at VA Tech.

I HOPE it wasn't an attempt at humor...
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Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:03 pm

”Gun Free Zones

Virginia Tech thus went out of its way to prevent what happened at a Pearl, Miss., high school in 1997, where assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieved a handgun from his car and apprehended a school shooter. Or what happened at Appalachian Law School, in Grundy, Va., in 2002, when a mass murder was stopped by two students with law-enforcement experience, one of whom retrieved his own gun from his vehicle. Or in Edinboro, Pa., a few days after the Pearl event, when a school attack ended after a nearby merchant used a shotgun to force the attacker to desist. Law-abiding citizens routinely defend themselves with firearms. Annually, Americans drive-off home invaders a half-million times, according to a 1997 study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.


Time after time armed law abiding citizens have saved themselves and others from injury or death because they have the means to defend themselves.

And time after time, gun control laws worldwide show that they don’t work.

Despite an almost total ban on firearms in Great Britain and Austrailia, gun crime is higher than it was before the bans.

"Gun-free zones" are premised on a fantasy: That murderers will follow rules, and that people like me or others licensed to carry concealed weapons, are a greater danger to those around them than crazed killers like Cho Seung-hui. That's an insult. Sometimes, it's a deadly one.
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Postby Catmando » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:15 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:”Gun Free Zones

Virginia Tech thus went out of its way to prevent what happened at a Pearl, Miss., high school in 1997, where assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieved a handgun from his car and apprehended a school shooter. Or what happened at Appalachian Law School, in Grundy, Va., in 2002, when a mass murder was stopped by two students with law-enforcement experience, one of whom retrieved his own gun from his vehicle. Or in Edinboro, Pa., a few days after the Pearl event, when a school attack ended after a nearby merchant used a shotgun to force the attacker to desist. Law-abiding citizens routinely defend themselves with firearms. Annually, Americans drive-off home invaders a half-million times, according to a 1997 study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.


Time after time armed law abiding citizens have saved themselves and others from injury or death because they have the means to defend themselves.

And time after time, gun control laws worldwide show that they don’t work.

Despite an almost total ban on firearms in Great Britain and Austrailia, gun crime is higher than it was before the bans.

"Gun-free zones" are premised on a fantasy: That murderers will follow rules, and that people like me or others licensed to carry concealed weapons, are a greater danger to those around them than crazed killers like Cho Seung-hui. That's an insult. Sometimes, it's a deadly one.


Haggis - are you saying that students should be given a gun when they enroll at a State University?

The thought is frightening - students being allowed to have guns at school.

I admit I don't really know what the solution is, but more guns certainly can't be the answer.
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Postby jamiebk » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:16 pm

While I agree with you Haggis, the fact of it is that no one can determine who is safe to carry a gun and who is not (beyond convicted criminals and institutionalized mental patients. Cho got the Glock legally. There is no telling whether any of the students who were shot at could have/would have stopped him even if they were armed themselves. I doubt that Cho even thought about consequences when he began his rampage...he fully intended to shoot himself anyway.
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Postby Catmando » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:23 pm

jamiebk wrote:While I agree with you Haggis, the fact of it is that no one can determine who is safe to carry a gun and who is not (beyond convicted criminals and institutionalized mental patients. Cho got the Glock legally. There is no telling whether any of the students who were shot at could have/would have stopped him even if they were armed themselves. I doubt that Cho even thought about consequences when he began his rampage...he fully intended to shoot himself anyway.


The only thing that could have stopped Cho from doing what he intended on doing would maybe have been preventative counselling.

But really, I don't think there is any way to stop someone insane from doing what they intend to do?
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