Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. (Spoilers)

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Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. (Spoilers)

Postby Shapley » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:11 pm

I finished the book. First time I've ever made efficient use of the time spent in a doctor's waiting room, I'm usually reduced to reading the four-month-old issues of Redbook lying around...

Anyhow, anyone want to have a discussion of the book?
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Postby treebeau » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:41 pm

Finished it as well.

Don't want to reveal anything, but I have a couple of questions.

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Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:22 am

Also finished it. I'm having to start the series from Philosopher's Stone, to pick up the front end of all those threads that were so neatly tied off at the end of Deathly Hallows, on account of my imperfect memory.

The thread is clearly marked "Spoilers", I don't see why we can't be specific and spill all sorts of beans. The folk still reading can stick to the "NO Spoilers" thread.

I was sort of impressed with the body count. It was almost a Governator-grade movie total by the end of the Hogwarts battle. And if you add in all the other casualties starting from the front of the book, wow.

I got the clearest visual from the scene where Professor MacGonagal is herding a whole bunch of animated desks down the corridor. I could just see it.

It was great finding out all the different Patronus forms of all the other characters. Very cool.
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Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. (Spoilers)

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:25 am

Shapley wrote: First time I've ever made efficient use of the time spent in a doctor's waiting room,...

Heh. I usually carry both a book and my knitting. It's my experience that failure to bring things to do ensures a long wait time. It also seems that if I'm really, really, really looking forward to a half-hour or reading time in the waiting room, I will be seen at once and won't even have time to get the book out of my bag.

Murphy's law.
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Postby Shapley » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:26 am

My only complaint is that the Epilogue could have been longer. I would have liked to know what effect the end of Voldemort and the changes at the ministry had on the lives of the non-humans.

It would also been interesting to know who was Minister of Magic. Luna? :D

I'll have to re-read the final chapters, in case I missed something. Too many interruptions while finishing the book. I may have to visit the gazebo tonight.

V/R
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Postby treebeau » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:48 am

I easily overlooked the word "Spoilers" in the thread title. Can it be changed to something like "SPOILER ALERT!" ?

I'd like to know:
Who becomes Headmaster of Hogwarts?

What jobs everyone has 19 years later?

Who in the hell would marry Malfoy?

How do they sort kids if the sorting hat burned?

How did Neville get the Sword of Gryffindor if the Goblin had it?

How could Tom Riddle be arrogant enough to think he was the only one that knew about the Room of Requirement for hiding the Diadem? It is described as having so many objects that kids have stored there over MANY years.

How come no scene letting Hagrid know that Harry was still alive? The guy was in tears and last I remember was "Hey, where's Harry?", then nothing more about Hagrid.

I could probably go on, but these are off the top of my head. Not that I'm complaining because I enjoyed it. But would have liked MORE wrapup. There was too much "wandering-around-in-fields-with-the-tent-and-not-knowing-what-to-do-next" in my opinion. That could have been cut and allowed for more wrapup.

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Postby Shapley » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:14 pm

Tim,

What jobs everyone has 19 years later?


I was curious about that one, too. Did Harry become an auror, as he had wanted? It seems the logical job for him. I would expect Mrs. Potter to be a stay-at-home mom, like her mother. Mrs. Ron Weasley, on the other hand, I would expect to hold a position suited to her talents. I don't know what Ron would be doing.

Percy resigned. Did the new minister give him his job back, or did he fill Fred's place at the joke store?

What about Kreacher and the house elves? Did Harry Keep Kreacher on as servant or free him?

Who in the hell would marry Malfoy?


Pansy Parkinson always had the hots for him, didn't she?


How do they sort kids if the sorting hat burned?


The sorting hat was already seriously patched and repaired. I don't think a few more stitches and some new fabric would hurt. As they say at Lloyd's: A boat remains the same boat even if every timber is replaced, as long as it is built on the lines of the original. I would expect the same to be true of sorting hats. You might check with the hat's underwriter. :D

How did Neville get the Sword of Gryffindor if the Goblin had it?


The hat and the sword both belonged to Godric Griffindor, so I would suspect that there was some bond between them. The hat was able to deliver the sword to Harry in the Chamber of Secrets, I doubt that it would have trouble finding the sword wherever it was. I guess it would come down to the question of whose magic was stronger: Griffindors or the goblins.

My question is whether or not Harry Kept his word and returned the sword to the goblin after peace was restored. I know the goblin didn't act honourably at the vault, but he did fulfil his part of the bargain.

How could Tom Riddle be arrogant enough to think he was the only one that knew about the Room of Requirement for hiding the Diadem? It is described as having so many objects that kids have stored there over MANY years.


That does seem a bit hard to figure. I would have expected him to hide it in the Chamber of Secrets. That would seem logical, since he was the only one who was supposed to be able to open it.

Of course, there were a lot of loose ends Ms. Rowling had to tie up, and I think she did an admirable job of doing so. I think the rambling in the wilderness was necessary to show Harry's personal struggle with the greed that was Dumbledore's downfall after finding out about the Deathly Hallows. Remember that he wanted to use them to make him invincible, which would have spelled disaster for him had he done so. Dumbledore says that he wanted Hermione to sway him to reason, which she (and the death of Dobby) seem to have done. Of course, learning the truth from Snape helped, as well.

___________________

Surprises for me in the book:

1. Dumbledore was dead. I thought he was in hiding. He had just told Malfoy that being dead was a great way to hide, so I thought he had tipped his hand.

2. Crookshanks didn't appear in the book. I had thought that Crookshanks was Regulus Black as an animagus. He seemed to recognize Sirius in Book 3, and helped him throughout the series. He appeared at the Magical Menagerie about the same time as Regulus apparently vanished, and Regulus body had not been recovered. It all fit, at least in my mind.

V/R
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Postby treebeau » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:41 pm

I thought Crookshanks did have a brief appearance. Can't recall.

Would have been neat to see Harry or McGonagall become headmaster/mistress. After all HE was a protege of Dumbledore and did not aspire to great positions (like Dumbledore and the Minister job) and defeated a wizard even more powerful than Grindelwald. Surely he's on a chocolate frog card by now ??? SHE was a cool, pretty level headed head of house and also a member of the Order of the Phoenix.

Would have been neat to see more students become teachers. Heck, Harry could even have become the DADA teacher (hopefully for more than a year).

Dumbledore's brother (Albumin?...just kidding...Aberforth). Could have wrapped up a little more with that dude too. And are young wizards still drooling over Madam Rosmerta ?

Inquiring minds want to know.
She needs to come out with the 8th book in the 7 book series.
Akin to Douglas Adams having a 4th and 5th book in the Hitchhiker's Guide "trilogy".

Regards,
Tim B.
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Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:12 pm

treebeau wrote:...Inquiring minds want to know.
She needs to ...

That's the sort of "She needs to" that means "I want her to". It's my impression that the series is wrapped up and Rowlings is done with it. I rather hope she finds another set of characters lurking in the back of her mind and gives them a book to play in.

(Have I mentioned that "X needs to" is one of the misstatements that give me a :curse: face? Yes, yes I have.)

I suppose you could write your own post-epilogue, if you wanted. Lord knows Bradley's and Flint's fans have done plenty of expansion of those story-worlds.

I suspect Percy ended up back in the Ministry of Magic, with a somewhat less stuffy attitude, and is probably a department head by now. George has probably gone into serious research, now that he's got the prankster shop built into a multinational owl-order business with storefronts in the villages outside all the Witch's and Wizard's schools. (Much to the dismay of all the schools' staffs.)

Hermione no doubt is in charge of the Ministry's archives and library. Ron is a senior editor at the Daily Prophet. Harry is, of course, an Auror and also teaches DADA seminars, as well as also coaching Quiddich for his local amateur team. He also consults with George's sporting goods department. Ginny is a Pediatric Wizard at the hospital, and is looking for a junior partner because her patient load keeps increasing. Kreacher is still in charge of the house, because he's a traditionalist and that's how things are supposed to be done. Harry keeps offering him socks...

Professor MacGonagal is how Headmistress MacGonagal.
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Postby Schmeelkie » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:12 pm

I KNEW Snape was in on Dumbledore death - so happy to be vindicated on that account. Thought it really was Dumbledore in the mirror, pulling an Obi-Wan - 'if you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine'... but great idea pulling in Aberforth. Loved that Dobby got to stick it to the Malfoy's even if he died in the process.

As he was walking into the forest I knew Harry would end up surviving, figuring it would have something to do with the Hallows but never saw the connection between him and Draco and wands, etc. Go Harry!

I wish we knew about jobs too - I doubt Ginny would really be a stay-at-home mom - she's as much an auror as Harry, Ron and Hermione.

How about Neville!!! I think it's so great that JK turned an accident-prone, picked on kid into a hero. Wish we could have heard more about the underground revolt at Hogwarts while it was happening - but JK only leaves Harry's POV to go to Voldemort, so I really didn't expect it. I figured since a different person had destroyed each Horcrux, once Harry told Neville, it would be him - what a scene! I was cheering!!

So what exactly did JK mean by 2 characters dying? I count at least 7 names of good guys - maybe just Snape and Fred were central enough to be counted? Maybe she just meant in the final battle? but then what about Lupin and Tonks? I knew when she had offed Mad-Eye and Dobby by the middle that that couldn't be it and the body count would get larger... does anyone have time to look up what she actually said? I should really get back to work. As I said on the other thread, got to finish this morning due to having to stay home while we got our new furnace and AC - but really need to get some more work done...
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Postby Shapley » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:23 pm

Crookshanks is mentioned in the book, twice I believe, but I do not believe he appears in the book. He is mentioned once early in the book when, if I recall correctly, they hear a noise at the Weasley's which Hermione attributes to Crookshanks. The other time I recall is when they are at the Whomping Willow and Ron says "I wish Crookshanks were here" so he could press the knot on the tree. I don't recall any other mention of him.

One other reason I forgot to mention for speculating that Crookshanks was Regulus Black in disguise was his apparant recognition of, and distaste for, Wormtail. I know, cats and rats, but his particular hatred of Crookshanks seemed to transcend the normal cat/mouse relationship.

I think I'll flatter myself and say that Ms. Rowling originally planned that, but decided at the last minute for a rewrite. I doubt she'll ever tell us any different. :)

McGonagall was appointed Headmistress after Dumbledore's death. The book does not say, but I assume she held that position until replaced by Snape once the ministry had fallen. It would probably be safe to assume that she regained that position after the defeat of the Death Eaters, but I think it improbable that she held it for nineteen years. I think that, if Harry were the Headmaster, he would probably not have been at the station to see his children off, but rather would be at Hogwarts. Although, of course, he would have plenty of time to apparate to Hogsmeade and enter Hogwarts before the arrival of the Express. But even so, the epilogue seems to leave that option unlikely.

There's no mention of the other teachers, so I think it probable that some could be former classmates of Harrys. Luna Lovegood could be teaching divination, Percy Weasley could be Muggle Studies. George Weasley could even be teaching Defense Against the Dark Arts. I suspect that the one-year curse on the job died with Riddle.

There was no mention of Madam Rosmerta, but then there was little mention of life in Hogsmeade.

I think Harry should have spoken to the Malfoys at the end of it (although there's no indication that he didn't sometime later). Even so, I think the nod he received on the station platform nineteen years later was, like Dudley's handshake, about as warm and fuzzy as things were ever going to be between them.

BTW, what did happen to the Dursley's?

V/R
Shapley

Oh! Who was this Victoire that Teddy was snogging in the end? Would that be Bill and Fleur's daughter? Named after Victor Krum, no doubt?
Last edited by Shapley on Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Shapley » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:31 pm

How about Neville!!! I think it's so great that JK turned an accident-prone, picked on kid into a hero. Wish we could have heard more about the underground revolt at Hogwarts while it was happening - but JK only leaves Harry's POV to go to Voldemort, so I really didn't expect it. I figured since a different person had destroyed each Horcrux, once Harry told Neville, it would be him - what a scene! I was cheering!!


Thanks for reminding me! I said on this forum, way back after the fifth book, that I thought Neville would play a huge role in the finale. Keep in mind that it was he, not Harry, that won the house cup for Griffindor in the first book, and that Harry used his name as an alias when he boarded the Knight Bus in book 3. His life and Harry's were entertwined, and that became evident when the prophecy was revealed, since it could have applied to either of them, until Riddle chose Harry and marked him as his equal.

All in all, a well-woven a tale. I think it'll take it's place alongside Lord of the Rings on the classics bookshelf.

V/R
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Postby Schmeelkie » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:39 pm

I found it interesting that in the fourth MOVIE, they had Neville give Harry the gillyweed instead of Dobby (though I assume that was because their FX budget was insane already without adding Dobby, and they had cut the whole SPEW subplot). Already increasing his stature in the movie versions- from 3 where he's showed being attacked by his monster book.
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Postby treebeau » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:57 pm

Selma: You need to lighten up ! (Ba dum ching!)
Just kidding, amiga.

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Postby Shapley » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:59 pm

It's my impression that the series is wrapped up and Rowlings is done with it. I rather hope she finds another set of characters lurking in the back of her mind and gives them a book to play in.


I concur. She should adopt my motto, which I adopted from Pontius Pilate: Quod Scripsi, Scripsi. :D
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Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:59 pm

treebeau wrote:Selma: You need to lighten up !

Fat ladies hear that a lot. Be nice, or I shall sing... :deal:
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Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:55 am

I have not read any of the HP books..

Is he dead?

After all... this is the spoilers thread... 8)
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Postby treebeau » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:18 am

Nope.

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Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:27 am

treebeau wrote:Nope.

Regards,
Tim B.


Tim

Thanks!

I couldn't stand the suspense.... :wink:
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Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:14 pm

My copy of "Charmed Knits" should arrive tomorrow. Harry Potter themed knitting projects.

I think I'll make myself a Hufflepuff hat. I think I belong in Hufflepuff, with the other practical plodders.
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