Copying Beethoven

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Postby Catmando » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:13 am

Shapley wrote:Here is a link to the version of the book that I have, from B&N. I think it is available in paperback, as well.

I've never sat down and tried reading the whole thing, but I like to refer to it when listening to works by various composers. I think it is an excellent reference book.

V/R
Shapley


Thanks Shap. This looks like a wonderful reference guide. I'll have to add it to the wish list. :D
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Postby Shapley » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:24 am

Did anyone here ever get the chance to see the movie Immortal Beloved? I don't think I've seen it on the shelf in the local DVD store, but I believe it is available online. I was curious if it was worth a look.

I believe Gary Oldham plays Beethoven in that one.
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Postby Catmando » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:32 am

Shapley wrote:Did anyone here ever get the chance to see the movie Immortal Beloved? I don't think I've seen it on the shelf in the local DVD store, but I believe it is available online. I was curious if it was worth a look.

I believe Gary Oldham plays Beethoven in that one.


I've seen it Shap, and I would definitely recommend seeing it. If for anything, the wonderful music in it. :)

As a movie, I clearly enjoyed Amadeus alot more, but Immortal Beloved isn't at all a bad movie. Again, if like in Amadeus, you're looking for historical accuracies, you would be disappointed. An interesting take on the theory on the Beethoven's supposed immortal beloved. But I can't divulge, you'll just have to see the movie. :wink:
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Postby Shapley » Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:05 pm

I'm really not looking for historical accuracy, just a good story. Good music is always a bonus, though!

I've seen Amadeus a couple of times, and I recently bought the DVD, as I've pretty well retired the old VCR player due to disuse. Next time I order books or music, I may add Immortal Beloved to the cart. :)

V/R
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Postby barfle » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:03 am

Shapley wrote:I've pretty well retired the old VCR player due to disuse.

The horror. The horror.
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Re: Copying Beethoven

Postby LarsHolm » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:02 am

Hi all, I've seen both movies. On Yourtube I got in to an argument with an american who wrote that Ed Harries reminded him of Monthy Python, because of the many faces/looks Ed Harris shows in this movie. He concluded that Gary Oldman owns Beethoven on the screen.
Now, I'm a huge fan of Gary Oldman, and Immortal Beloved is (in my point of view) a masterpiece, but not because of Gary Oldman - he was okay, but the story was not at all as fluent as Amadeuz, and somehow I think it's a bit wrong or sad to start a film with the composers death. The scenery in Immortal beloved was fantastic, from the clothes to the pictures - very beautiful.
I think Ed Harris performance is extremely good, in the sence that he (I think) acts like Beethoven did. I've read Beethovens letters, a lot of books and if that material is reliable, Beethoven was the type of guy, who didn't like if someone looked at him to long - then he would make a face and stare right back until You left! This dosn't count for the time where people could pay 5 pfennig to watch the Maestro eat his lunch (1 minute only).
I admire that person, in spite of all the resistance and troubles he got, he believed in him self and he worked really hard to achieve his music. I have never heard Symphonies, Piano Concertos and Piano Sonatas better in every way at any other composer. I read a book called:" A sketch of a genious" in which Beethoven is chairman of a pipesmoking club, together with Rosini, Clemente and others. Their meetings nearly always ended with Beethoven playing piano, improvising and explaining and there was no interuptions, everybody listened. A funny litlle detail (don't know if it is true) was the Grand meeting with Goethe at some university - where thousands of students occupied the area several days ahead, to be sure to see the Maestro - much of his music was banned at the time, he broke every known (Italian) rule about music, and his music really takes You, embraces You and You get a feeling of being him.
He must have been pretty intelligent, because once he had a conversation with Goethe, where he explained:" Yes, it's hard to believe that the work the two of us is doing right now, will never be forgotten". Goethe didn't quite have the same confidence.

I've never really heard his Chamber music, it has allways seemed a litlle boring - does anyone have an angle to start listening to his String Quartets etc.

This was my 1. letter and became longer than expected, hope thats allright.

Best regards Lars
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Re: Copying Beethoven

Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:22 am

Welcome to the B.com BB Lars!!!!

TM :D
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Re: Copying Beethoven

Postby Shapley » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:10 am

Hello, Lars. Welcome to the B.com BB!

I agree that Ed Harris did a good job as Beethoven. I think he suffered from a poor script, but the movie, all in all, was enjoyable. As I said in an earlier post, the screenwriter seemed to forget at times that Beethoven was deaf, as he ability to hear seems to vary throughout the film, not as a factor of age but as a factor of convenience to the script.

I still haven't seen Immortal Beloved. It's on my wish list.

V/R
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Re: Copying Beethoven

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:08 am

Welcome, Lars. Pleased to meet you. :grin:
>^..^<
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Re: Copying Beethoven

Postby LarsHolm » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:53 am

Thank You all for the welcome - everybody here seems so friendly, in fact the tone is really really nice. It's good to read Your stuf. Lars
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Re: Copying Beethoven

Postby Shapley » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:58 am

everybody here seems so friendly, in fact the tone is really really nice.


Just watch out if you wander over to the 'debate team' area, we get a bet testy at times. :D
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Re: Copying Beethoven

Postby jamiebk » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:59 am

Shapley wrote:
everybody here seems so friendly, in fact the tone is really really nice.


Just watch out if you wander over to the 'debate team' area, we get a bet testy at times. :D

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: You beat me to it...I was about to say the same thing! :rofl:
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Re: Copying Beethoven

Postby Shapley » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:21 pm

I think, all in all, we do manage to keep it civil, though. :D
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Re: Copying Beethoven

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:21 pm

Shapley wrote:
everybody here seems so friendly, in fact the tone is really really nice.


Just watch out if you wander over to the 'debate team' area, we get a bet testy at times. :D

They only get testy when I tell them where they've gone wrong and gotten confused. Nobody's politics are right except mine.

(Alright, OT, gimme that fireproof suit, I'm going to need it!) :grin: :mrgreen:
>^..^<
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Re: Copying Beethoven

Postby barfle » Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:42 pm

Selma in Sandy Eggo wrote:Nobody's politics are right except mine.
:grin: :mrgreen:

Since my politics are correct, too, why aren't you helping me put OT, Haggis, and Shapley straight?
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Re: Copying Beethoven

Postby EricP » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:42 am

Hello folks,

Sorry to bump a topic that withered away weeks ago, but as I was strolling around I saw the topic, read it, and felt this would be a good place to make my first post - long time listener, first-time boarder. So, I think you've all been far too kind to this film. I was a film reviewer for the website DVD Verdict and requested this title. I watched it and hated it. Take a look at my review for my full venom. I can't imagine any fan of classical music or classically-inspired films to like this one. Anyone still contemplating this one should steer clear and save yourself time, aggravation, and money.

Now let's see what else is going on around here.
Last edited by EricP on Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Displace one note and there would be diminishment. Displace one phrase and the structure would fall."
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Re: Copying Beethoven

Postby Shapley » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:04 am

Hello, Eric,

Welcome to the B.com BB! Glad to have your input.

I read your review and I have to agree with you for the most part. I still found the movie somewhat enjoyable, but as I said earlier I don't sweat the historic stuff. I thought Ed Harris did a decent job with a lousy script. I did point out that his level of deafness seemed inconsistent throughout the film, and I think that anyone who knows anything at all about Beethoven knows that his deafness was complete, especially at that point in his life.

I do agree with the bit about the conducting of the Ninth. I was not aware that Beethoven did not conduct the opening of that symphony, and I don't think that bit of deviation from historical fact alone would doom the movie, but I do think having her 'keeping time' was a bit of stretch. Add to that her getting lost in the music and conducting with her eyes closed and you have a real stretch. But at that point I was listening to the music, also, and the story mattered little.

There's a film about Vivaldi coming out, I understand. It, too, will take 'artistic license' in order to make his life a bit more interesting. Apparently it will, like Amadeus before it, take rumours regarding his life and expand them into the main theme of the film. But without adding a bit of scandal would the life of Vivaldi be worth making a movie about? I would watch one, but what about the filmgoing public. Skin and scandal are what the people want to see, and Hollywood is always willing to stretch the truth beyond breaking in order to deliver it.

V/R
Shapley
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Re: Copying Beethoven

Postby dai bread » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:52 pm

I had the good fortune to see this movie in a theatre with an excellent sound system. I didn't bother with the story very much- the large helpings of B's music kept me interested. That big stretch of the 9th was worth the admission price on its own. It was far more than commercial films usually give.

I'm still not a fan of the late quartets, though.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: Copying Beethoven

Postby EricP » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:57 pm

dai bread wrote:I had the good fortune to see this movie in a theatre with an excellent sound system. I didn't bother with the story very much- the large helpings of B's music kept me interested. That big stretch of the 9th was worth the admission price on its own. It was far more than commercial films usually give.

Exactly my thoughts. The only saving grace is the music, including the fourteen minute spent on the Ninth.
"Displace one note and there would be diminishment. Displace one phrase and the structure would fall."
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