SoCal in flames

If you would like to post a topic on the Beethoven Bulletin Board but you cannot find an appropriate location... post it here!

Moderator: Nicole Marie

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby BigJon@Work » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:23 pm

Ash is a good fertilizer.
"I am a 12 foot lizard." GCR Jan 31, 2006
BigJon@Work
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 2252
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 12:01 am
Location: work. Duh!

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby piqaboo » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:36 pm

I think its two fold
1) avoid clogging the storm drains
2) avoid making nasty water at the outfall. Thats probably the dominant one.

Its kinda silly because
even if I wash my car on the lawn,
the ash off the roof will get in the storm drain system at the next rainfall. As will the ash on the sidewalks etc.

No one will be able to prevent OT washing the cars. Dirty cars bug him. I think car washing is a form of therapy for him. Me - I dont realize they're dirty til I cant find them when they're parked on a dirt lot. So, its a good thing he's patient w me!
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby dai bread » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:56 pm

The NZ Herald published a satellite photo of plumes of smoke hundreds of kilometres long drifting out over the ocean. I gather the present fires aren't as bad as some you've had, but they look pretty disastrous from here.

Are you getting any international help? The Aussies get lots of practice with their own fires, but our people could do with some. Forest fires used to be common here every summer, but an on-going education campaign (Keep NZ Green!), some watchtowers in the plantation forests, and our wettish climate put an end to them. Roadside billboards giving a graded fire risk from low to extreme help too. The pointers on them are moved regularly so they are reasonably accurate and therefore credible.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
dai bread
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3020
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:07 am

No intn'l help I've heard of.

GWB's supposed to show up tomorrow. :barf:
I guess it's worth trying tto stomach if people get the aid they need.

It would seem things in general have turned the corner, and that the weather is finally going to allow the firefighters to get the upper hand.

I went with our house guest to Escondido today to check on his home, which was fine. We passed through RB on the way up, and while we could see scores of homes that had burned to the ground from the freeway, we could see THOUSANDS which were on the edge of the brushy hillsides and were obviously saved through the heroic efforts of the firefighters. Literally a charred moonscape, right up to the edge of the home owner's properties. It was truly awe inspiring.
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

http://www.one.org
OperaTenor
Patron
 
Posts: 10457
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Paradise with Piq & Altoid, southern California

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:09 am

It's great to see *ignaf and Bones are at least lurking. I miss you guys.
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

http://www.one.org
OperaTenor
Patron
 
Posts: 10457
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Paradise with Piq & Altoid, southern California

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby piqaboo » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:22 am

Orange County and LA aren't having record fires, although they have a lot of burning going on.
For San Diego however, this one is 'a worst'. The combined SD 2003 fires burned around 270K acres.

Things are calming down. Cant see the fire glow from the yard anymore - not at 3 am nor now. Most of my coworkers and fellow choir members are back in their homes. The temperature is a bit down, and the humidity a bit up, but mostly the wind is going back to normal patterns. I am a bit concerned, because its not clear if estimated dates of containment etc include another santa ana wind. We usually get them about every second week thru mid november or so. Fingers crossed.
So far, more acreage covered, fewer buildings lost and greatly less injury and death. Lessons were clearly learned from last time - including "evacuate early and evacuate often".
One reporter tried early on to start a snipe fest about why the fire dept was loaned 6 copters adn only had two in the air. The guy answering questions very politely and with no defensiveness at all explained the concept of trained people etc, and that line of dirt digging has gone away.

As before, there will be much to learn as folks try to figure out why some houses burned and others didn't. Luck plays a part, and so does roof design, landscape, etc.

Here's the most recent update:
10-24-07 7:30 p.m. CAL FIRE provided the following updates on fires.

Harris Fire
75,000 acres
10% contained
Full containment expected on the 28th and full control on Nov. 4th.
1,341 firefighters assigned and 7 injuries to firefighters.
Cost to date to fight the fires is $3,400,000.
155 homes destroyed
250 homes damaged
2 commercial properties and 17 outbuildings destroyed.
The returning onshore flow has moved the fire to the northeast threatening structures along Highway 94 from Jamul to the east, Lyons Valley to the north. The regional communications equipment on Lyons Peak was damaged by fire, cutting off power and destroying the back-up generator. Crews installed a portable repeater to support fire communications. The fire progressed north in the Barrett Lake area, consuming old, heavy fuels.

Witch Fire
196,240 acres
20% contained
No estimated containment or control, but little fire spread.
2,331 firefighters assigned to this fire
Cost to date to fight the fires is $5 million
Fire progression has slowed to the west, southwest, and northwest due to improvement in weather and resources assigned to the fire. Conditions in these areas have improved to the point of evaluating the return of some residents. Winds in the fire area are still variable with coastal influence returning to valleys. Warm, dry and unstable conditions still exist at the higher elevations and the eastern areas of the fire. The Poomacha Fire continues to burn close to the north flank of the Witch Incident, they have NOT joined.

Rice Fire
9,000 acres
20% contained
Full containment expected on the 28th, with full control expected November 5th
1,095 firefighters assigned
Cost to date to fight the fires is $1,283,133

Poomacha Fire
35,000 acres
10 percent contained
719 firefighters assigned.
12 injuries to firefighters.
Expansion of incident in a north easterly direction due to wind shifts. Fire increased in size due to extreme fire behavior, lack of resources and wind shifts. Perimeter control has been initiated and structure protection is still in place. Evacuation centers continue to be staffed and occupied.
Cost to date to fight the fires is $750,000.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:01 am

The full moon was out this morning, on my way to work. The dark, dull orange full moon. I felt like I was caught in a Darkover novel. Extremely weird.

On the up side, I actually got a full night's sleep last night. About time! I find the smell of brushfire smoke to be a strong anti-soporific and I keep waking up to check whether the fire's coming to get me. Things are indeed calming down some, and several more of the evacuated neighborhoods have been reopened to residents - though the lights are still on at the stadium and the stadium parking lot is still full of cars, trucks, and campers. We're a long way from getting everybody home again.

Dai, I've never heard of international help being offered to us. What a novel concept! We do have fire fighters from Oregon, Nevada, and Arizona. And the politicians have cut some of the red tape so that we can get some military air assets for fire suppression. This is a Very Good Thing.
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby barfle » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:38 am

I stand corrected regarding my previous post. This is a truly nasty fire event that has caused amazing devastation. Rancho Bernardo was always considered a nice place to live, and it seemed to me the few times I visited there that it wasn't particularly in danger. Live and learn.

I tried to phone my parents, who live in Sun City, yesterday. Their answering machine worked, so I guess I can conclude their house is OK, at least for the time being. Don't know if they're away because they want to be or because they have to be. I guess I can call my sister, though.

One thing about southern California - it is a great place to live, and lots of people know that, so they keep moving there. That means more and more homes being built in previously wild areas, where there is no experience in fire prevention. I lived fairly close to Santiago Canyon in Orange County, and I certainly can recall when it was boondocks. Many of the canyon roads I used to use to get away from it all are now in the middle of it all, and those are typically the places that go first.

Funny thing about where I live now. Almost everything here was carved out of forests, and driving around, it's easy to get lost because these woods look a lot like those woods. I remember when I was a kid, there were always warnings about forest fires. While buildings burn here almost every day, I haven't heard of a forest fire since I got here.
--I know what I like--
barfle
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Springfield, Vahjinyah, USA

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:54 am

An announcement for all you guacamole lovers. The Rice fire burned up a whole lot of avocado trees in Fallbrook. This makes me sad. :cry:
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:25 am

I took our house guest to the airport this morning(on a slight digression, those here who whine about the Sandy Eggo airport obviously don't get around - we have a thoroughly pleasant airport, IMNSHO). I also saw that dark red full moon. It was rather eerie.

I read in this morning's fish wrap more hullabaloo about the alleged lack of air support for our fires. Perhaps my perspective is lacking objectivity, but it really smacks more of trying to find something to complain about than an actual problem.

Yes, people lost homes, and some of them are dear friends, and I will do whatever I can to help them out. But, we really ought to be counting our blessings, because it could have been so much worse.
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

http://www.one.org
OperaTenor
Patron
 
Posts: 10457
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Paradise with Piq & Altoid, southern California

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:26 am

Devastating to hear about the avocados, however. I'm right there with ya, Selma.
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

http://www.one.org
OperaTenor
Patron
 
Posts: 10457
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Paradise with Piq & Altoid, southern California

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby piqaboo » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:17 am

The air support question came up at a news conference I heard broadcast this morning. The Mayor gave the numbers of aircraft used. It was impressive. OT, perhaps if Altoid gives you a few minutes, you can search KPBS website, find the interview and get the numbers posted here?
(odds at least 5:1 against Altoid allowing that....)
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:45 am

I don't know, there might be a pixel limit.

:curse:
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

http://www.one.org
OperaTenor
Patron
 
Posts: 10457
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Paradise with Piq & Altoid, southern California

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby piqaboo » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:33 pm

Impressive list of "toys".
(this isnt the total list of aircraft used - it was even more impressive).

10-25-07 9:38 a.m. CAL FIRE provides the following update:

The Harris Fire is 81,000 and 10% contained. Full containment is estimated for October 31. Currently there are 93 engines, 16 crews, 4 helicopters (2 of which are helitankers) 3 airtankers, 2 dozers, 12 water tenders (1,611 firefighters). Fire behavior remains active in old and extremely dry fuels. The winds have returned to a normal diurnal flow (from the west). Major wind reversals in this area have caused firefighter fatalities during past incidents. There are heavy fuels and steep terrain on the northern edge of the fire. Active structure protection continues in Lyons Valley.

The Witch Fire is 197,990 acres and 20% contained. There have been 22 injuries to firefighters and it up to $5.3 million in suppression costs. Currently there 325 engines, 45 fire crews, 45 water tenders, 22 dozers (2,619 firefighters). Winds in the fire area are still variable with coastal influence returning to valleys as normal weather pattern. Warm, dry and unstable conditions still exist at the higher elevations and the eastern areas of the fire.

The Rice Fire is 9,000 acres and 30% contained with full containment expected on the 28th. Cost to date for suppressing this fire is $1,283,133. Currently there are 112 engines, 19 fire crews, 13 water tenders, 11 dozers (1,095 firefighters). Firefighters made good progress with perimeter control and structure protection. Evacuation orders still in effect for Fallbrook and outlying areas.

The Poomacha Fire is 35,000 acres and 20% contained. Cost to date for suppressing this fire is $950,000. There have been 12 injuries to firefighters. Currently we have 75 engines, 25 fire crews, 1 helicopter, 1 helitanker, 9 airtankers, 10 dozers, (859 firefighters). Firing operations were conducted but were hampered by wind shifts. Firing will continue today. Interior burning was most active within the eastern portion of the incident. Burning trees and rolling material continue to be a safety hazard to resources. Re-entry plans are being developed for displaced residents.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby Shapley » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:53 pm

There have been 22 injuries to firefighters and it up to $5.3 million in suppression costs.

Cost to date for suppressing this fire is $1,283,133.

Cost to date for suppressing this fire is $950,000.


I gather that the arsonist can expect a major garnishment of his wages, if he is caught.
Last edited by Shapley on Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:26 pm

The Poomacha fire is potentially the most expensive of the lot. It's located around and on Mount Palomar. You know, the little hill with the fancy telescope in the specialized shed on top of it. So far, none of the news accounts have mentioned any imminent danger to the observatory but it's a hill, fire tends to climb hills, and it ain't over until I sing.

I'm still upset about the avocado trees. :cry:
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby dai bread » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:03 pm

"Dai, I've never heard of international help being offered to us. What a novel concept! "

We & the Aussies both sent firefighters to the last big flare-up in Montana & neighbouring states.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
dai bread
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3020
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:02 pm

My apologies, Dai. That I never noticed doesn't mean it never happened. :oops:

The fires continue to lose ground. At the moment, they've been forced back mostly into rough ground, and the reservation, observatory, and area around Mt. Palomar are the area of currently greatest concern. Folks are being allowed back into more neighborhoods and there's a whole lot of cleanup to be done.
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby OperaTenor » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:19 pm

There's also a lot of people picking nits in the media right now.

Maybe I'd be singing a different tune if my house had burned down - I'd like to think not - but I feel, while certainly not perfect, things were handled *vastly* more competently this time around than last. One of the proofs-in-the-pudding would be the number of structures lost this time, compared to the Cedar fire in 2003. Back then, it was over 2,200, this time, it was something like 500, IIRC. So far, seven dead, compard to 17(?) last time. And this was a bigger fire, and burned through more incorporated areas.

Sure, the reverse 911 wasn't perfect, but at least we had it this time.

People got to evacuation centers, information was passed with a few hiccups, but most folks seemed to know what was happening if they tried to find out. Most heartening to me was the spontaneous public response. To have an evacuation center say by the end of the first day, "Thank you, we have all the food we can use" leaves me gob smacked.

Sure, we need to analyze and research areas to improve, but taking it to the point of incessant whining like I saw in today's paper is excessive.
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

http://www.one.org
OperaTenor
Patron
 
Posts: 10457
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Paradise with Piq & Altoid, southern California

Re: SoCal in flames

Postby OperaTenor » Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:05 pm

We visited our friends in RB who lost their home. This is what's left of their 1910 Steinway M(?):

Image

The metal bits in the upper right are what's left of the stairway railing the piano sat under.
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

http://www.one.org
OperaTenor
Patron
 
Posts: 10457
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Paradise with Piq & Altoid, southern California

PreviousNext

Return to Culture Connections

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot]

cron