2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby barfle » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:29 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:The rest of his life whenever he saw an M1 Carbine on TV or in a movie he always snorted in disgust. I don’t even think he knew he was doing it; it was just his reflex on the reliability of a weapon that let him down, the ultimate insult to an infantryman.

Sort of how I feel about an M14. When I am operating one of those, the safest place to be is the target. A very dangerous place to be is in my right shoulder.

I don't claim to be an expert on firearms, but I'm competent with many of them. My experiences with M14s was not limited to a single piece, so I believe the problem lies with the weapon. I was pretty good with the M16 and M1911A1.
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:45 pm

barfle wrote: Sort of how I feel about an M14. When I am operating one of those, the safest place to be is the target. A very dangerous place to be is in my right shoulder.

I don't claim to be an expert on firearms, but I'm competent with many of them. My experiences with M14s was not limited to a single piece, so I believe the problem lies with the weapon. I was pretty good with the M16 and M1911A1.


The night Lance Corporal Domingo Arroyo was killed in Mogadishu one of our abandoned OPs came under sniper fire. The only weapon we had to return fire (this was early on) was a M-14 EOD had to detonate unsafe munitions. Unfortunately we didn't have any U.S. 7.62 ammo so I had to hand the EOD SSgt single rounds of AK-47 rds ammo we had confiscated and he would fire single fire at the sniper's position, 500 meters or so away. The sniper quit after we put 10-20 rds down range. We found the position the next day but no signs we had hit the sniper, probably one of the M-14 rds hit too close for comfort and he quit.
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:37 am

England is considering a ban on knives.

Knife crime among young people has sparked a widespread debate in recent weeks in Britain, where police say they have seen “a worrying trend” toward more severe knife attacks involving younger attackers and victims.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown on Thursday announced a crackdown on teenagers carrying knives, saying that those as young as 16 will be prosecuted for knife possession on the first offense. Previously, anyone younger than 18 generally received only a warning.

“Young people need to understand that carrying knives doesn’t protect you, it does the opposite — it increases the danger for all of us, destroys young lives and ruins families,” Brown said after meeting with top police and government officials at his 10 Downing Street office. “Recent tragic events have reminded us of that.”

In a country where almost all guns are illegal, police say knives are the most popular weapons carried by youths in major cities from London to Glasgow. A police stop-and-search campaign in London last month found that about 5 percent of the 4,200 youths randomly checked were carrying knives.


It’s getting mighty hard to do satire these days.
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby Shapley » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:16 am

"A lot of people think that it's better to be safe than sorry, and the only way they can be safe is maybe if I carry something, you know," Shire said. "It's that kind of mentality that's making more crimes."


If we'd just give up this idea of wanting to be safe, and to be responsible for our own safety, the world would be a better place.... :roll:

I always enjoy hearing from people who want to ban the "#1 weapon used in crimes". As long as there is crime, there will be a "#1 weapon" used in them (excepting, of course, a tie for that position). If you remove the "#1 weapon", another weapon will fill the spot. Will they ban rope when strangling becomes #1? Will they ban sticks? Will they ban rocks? Where will it end?
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby jamiebk » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:22 am

Some weapons, such as hand guns are more conducive to crime. There are many weapons in the world, but few pose the same threat as a concealed hand gun. I doubt anyone would be held up by someone threatening to strangle the victim with a rope. A hand gun can be used at almost any distance to threaten, disable, or kill a victim. They are cheap and plentiful. However, I truly believe that a ban is not effective in dealing with the problem. Criminals will still get them leaving the rest of us quite literally defenseless.
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby BigJon@Work » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:38 am

Haggis@wk wrote: or a .12 GA pump shotgun the rest of the time he was in combat.

Aren’t shotguns illegal in war?
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby Shapley » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:47 am

BigJon@Work wrote:
Haggis@wk wrote: or a .12 GA pump shotgun the rest of the time he was in combat.

Aren’t shotguns illegal in war?


Why would they be 'illegal' in war? Sawed-Off Shotguns, known as 'trench guns' were common in World War I, since they were easier to manuever inside the trench than a long gun. (They are also easier to maneuver inside the tight restraints of a home or apartment, which should be a valid argument against the federal ban on them, but we've surrendered the idea of firearm ownership for 'home defense' in favour of the protecting 'sporting firearms').

Tactical shotguns are common in the military in in police arsenals. 'Riot guns' are shotguns, as the scatter effect is desirable for dispersing crowds, and the short range is desirable to minimize collateral damage.

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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby piqaboo » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:57 am

Never had a BB gun, Dad didn't like them and thought they were dangerous because they were considered toys and he say that when I was old enough, I'd get a real gun. Heck, it took Mom to intervene before he'd let me have cap guns!!

I so very much wanted a BB gun and got the same response*. Had the same challenge getting a cap gun. Would have seen it tossed in the trash if I'd ever been caught pointing it at someone. Kinda funny to remember playing cowboys & indians etc, shooting caps madly, without pointing the guns at each other.
Most of the time, we were out of caps so we settled for shouting 'bang!'.

*old enough in my case meant when I was living in my own home and could buy my own.
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby BigJon@Work » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:00 pm

Yep, my one and only cap gun was lost via the same rule as at your house. I pointed it at someone and it was broken and thrown in the trash. :cry: :cry:
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby piqaboo » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:27 pm

We had water pistols and my dad tried to impose the same rule. I think we defaulted to using the garden hose instead, and he gave in (since he became the target).
Altoid's got a couple weird looking watershooter things, powerful enough they came with safety glasses, and a seahorse water 'pistol'. I have not banned her from pointing the seahorse at anyone.
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby Shapley » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:29 pm

We always played Cowboys and Indians, or War, or Cops and Robbers, and always pointed cap guns, water guns, those Star Trek Disk-Hurling Guns, and Rubber-Band guns at each other. How the Hell are you supposed to shoot the bad guy (or the good guy, if you're the bad guy) without pointing the gun at them?????? In high school we made 'Polish Cannons" out of beer cans, which used lighter fluid to propel tennis balls at high speed. I've been shot with tennis balls more than once in my high school years. They were eventually banned from school, not because of the shooting, but because one of them blew up in the parking lot. Too much lighter fluid, not enough clearance for the tennis ball, apparently.

One of our neighbors had a BB gun, and he used to get home from school before we did. He would sometimes sit on his front porch and shoot at us as we passed his house, making it necessary for us to crawl through the ditch to get home, unless we went the long way around. His house sat a ways back from the road, so the BB's didn't have enough velocity by the time they reached us to do more than create a minor sting, but it was enough to make us want to avoid it. My grandfather told me he and his brother used to do the same thing when they were younger, shooting at the school kids that passed behind his house on the way home. Such was life.

V/R
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby BigJon@Work » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:08 pm

My dumb-ass neighbors would shoot BB guns at each other inside the house . . . They were latch-key kids living with a single Dad who was a workaholic, so parental supervision had broken down years before. I avoided going inside their house after I witnessed one of their running gun battles. :shock:
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby jamiebk » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:26 pm

Most of the kids I knew with BB guns liked to shoot at windows. It usually put a cone shaped divot on the back of the glass...an unmistakable key that it had happened. I never had a BB gun when I was a kid, but I always wanted one. I did have a CO2 pellet gun (pistol) and took great pleasure at knocking the pigeons off of our 3 story house. (here is a picture of it back when it was built in 1856 (I lived in the left side...the right side was my dad's office. In fact, my bedroom was on the third (top) floor as you see it here ):
Image

The pigeons used to get in the eaves and poop everywhere. It was a HUGE mess. We tried everything to get rid of them. The pellet gun was a last, but effective, resort.
Last edited by jamiebk on Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby Shapley » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:28 pm

Nice house. :)
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:05 pm

BigJon@Work wrote:
Haggis@wk wrote: or a .12 GA pump shotgun the rest of the time he was in combat.

Aren’t shotguns illegal in war?



If they were this would rate a Geneva cite all on its own.

Dude, I SO want one of these!!!!!
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:39 am

Image

This photo is of the outside of The Gun Store Las Vegas. The good news is that gun owners aren't buying into any of the "sensible gun control" nonsense anymore. The bad news is, there is probably very little incentive for Obama to go duck hunting to shore up support from sportsmen, and we'll miss out on all of the great photos of the Senator in blaze orange trying to figure which way to point the barrel, darn.
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby Shapley » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:44 am

The bad news is, there is probably very little incentive for Obama to go duck hunting to shore up support from sportsmen, and we'll miss out on all of the great photos of the Senator in blaze orange trying to figure which way to point the barrel, darn.

Since Dick Cheney's accident, I think many politicians may have decided to find safer ways to show their 'support' for gun owners.... :)
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:12 am

Supreme Court Says Individuals Have Right to Own Guns, Strikes Down D.C. Handgun Ban

Newsflash, the 2nd Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby jamiebk » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:14 am

I figured you'd be on top of that Haggis....here is the article I saw:

Court says individuals have right to own guns
Decision is justices' first major pronouncement on gun rights in U.S. history
BREAKING NEWS
The Associated Press
updated 7:51 a.m. PT, Thurs., June. 26, 2008

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Americans have a right to own guns for self-defense and hunting, the justices' first major pronouncement on gun rights in U.S. history.

The court's 5-4 ruling struck down the District of Columbia's 32-year-old ban on handguns as incompatible with gun rights under the Second Amendment. The decision went further than even the Bush administration wanted, but probably leaves most firearms laws intact.

The court had not conclusively interpreted the Second Amendment since its ratification in 1791. The amendment reads: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The basic issue for the justices was whether the amendment protects an individual's right to own guns no matter what, or whether that right is somehow tied to service in a state militia.

Justice Antonin Scalia, writing for four colleagues, said the Constitution does not permit "the absolute prohibition of handguns held and used for self-defense in the home."

In dissent, Justice John Paul Stevens wrote that the majority "would have us believe that over 200 years ago, the Framers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons."

He said such evidence "is nowhere to be found."

Joining Scalia were Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Anthony Kennedy and Clarence Thomas. The other dissenters were Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter.

Capital's strict gun law
The capital's gun law was among the nation's strictest.

Dick Anthony Heller, 66, an armed security guard, sued the District after it rejected his application to keep a handgun at his home for protection in the same Capitol Hill neighborhood as the court.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia ruled in Heller's favor and struck down Washington's handgun ban, saying the Constitution guarantees Americans the right to own guns and that a total prohibition on handguns is not compatible with that right.

The issue caused a split within the Bush administration. Vice President Dick Cheney supported the appeals court ruling, but others in the administration feared it could lead to the undoing of other gun regulations, including a federal law restricting sales of machine guns. Other laws keep felons from buying guns and provide for an instant background check.


Scalia said nothing in Thursday's ruling should "cast doubt on long-standing prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons or the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings."

The law adopted by Washington's city council in 1976 bars residents from owning handguns unless they had one before the law took effect. Shotguns and rifles may be kept in homes, if they are registered, kept unloaded and either disassembled or equipped with trigger locks.

Opponents of the law have said it prevents residents from defending themselves. The Washington government says no one would be prosecuted for a gun law violation in cases of self-defense.

Please check back for details on this breaking story.


© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25390404/
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Re: 2ND Amendment Ruling Due in 2008

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:57 am

BigJon@Work wrote:
Haggis@wk wrote: or a .12 GA pump shotgun the rest of the time he was in combat.

Aren’t shotguns illegal in war?



DUDE!!!
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