Population

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Re: Population

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:07 am

jamiebk wrote:Time to bring out the real power of the world and call together the League of Exceptional Gentlemen :lol:

...and the Knitting, Needlework, and World Domination Aunties Association... :mrgreen:
>^..^<
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Re: Population

Postby barfle » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:16 am

dai bread wrote:A German homestay girl of 16 years age told us that it was most upsetting that racehorses which aren't winners were turned into pet food. They probably are, but she knew this before she arrived here, so I wonder what Germans are told about us. Whatever it is, it doesn't stop them coming as visitors, and sometimes as immigrants. They get upset about about deerhunting too, though they seem happy to buy farmed venison.

I've posted references to US laws prohibiting the slaughter of horses for human consumption. I know California passed an initiative (direct public ballot) that banned it, but then I moved away so I don't know if it's still in effect or not.

I also don't know what the status of the bill in Congress to outlaw the slaughter of horses for human consumption. Wiki says it's passed and signed, and that there are no equine slaughter houses in the US, but there are still campaigns underway to outlaw the slaughtering of horses in the US.

Personally, it looks like a lot of people's emotions are getting in the way of their sense.
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Re: Population

Postby Shapley » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:27 am

barfle wrote:Personally, it looks like a lot of people's emotions are getting in the way of their sense.


They lack "Horse Sense", in other words. :D

There was a move to establish a horse-slaughtering plant here in Missouri a few years ago, but it was killed by such short-sighted legislation. The meat would have been exported, presumably to France.

The point is, it's meat. Once it's dead, it doesn't really matter whether it becomes human food, dog food, worm food, or bacteria food, something's going to eat it.

There was a similar uproar when dog-fur boots were going to be imported into the States, I believe from China. Dogs are raised there as livestock, apparently, and the fur is a byproduct. Skiers in other countries wear dog-fur lined boots, but they can't in America, because we're emotional about dogs, just as we are about horses.

Many years ago, when the remains of the Titanic were first discovered, a bill was passed in Congress prohibiting Americans from buying or selling artifacts from that ship. According to the bill, the Titanic holds a 'unique place in American history'. I'm not sure what's unique in American history about a British ship that never docked in America, but facts just get in the way of sentiment, and the sentiment carried the day. So it is with horse meat and dog fur.

V/R
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Re: Population

Postby barfle » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:32 am

All this makes me wonder what you do with a horse that has outlived its usefulness.

Even the animals I am emotional about (my cats) get put out of their misery and cremated. But it's a lot more work cremating a horse, and it COSTS money instead of being a source of income.

Some people's kids... :crazy:
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Re: Population

Postby Shapley » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:42 am

barfle wrote:All this makes me wonder what you do with a horse that has outlived its usefulness.


According to OT, we keep beating them here.....
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Re: Population

Postby jamiebk » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:05 am

Back years ago (I think it was in the 70's) you may recall that we had the "Beef crisis" when cost of beef skyrocketed (probably laughable today compared to oil). Nonetheless, horsemeat became available along with buffalo, beefalo and who knows what else. I don't know if laws were passed at that time to allow for horse meat consumption by humans. I quite agree with Shap...meat is meat. I tried the horsemeat and it was OK, though nothing special All I want to be sure of is that:

1. it came from sound, heathy horses
2. slaughtering was done in a humane manner with proper processing
3. the meat is properly handled, marked, and sold as what it actually is.
Jamie

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Re: Population

Postby Shapley » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:33 am

According to this article, the last U.S. horse slaughterhouse was closed a year ago. I know we had a discussion here about that time, that may have been the article that started it.
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Re: Population

Postby piqaboo » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:34 pm

haggis wrote:
piqaboo wrote: Re pop growth - this board seems to be firmly PPG, despite my letting down the side.



Inquiring minds want to know when we can expect those other 1.1 children???? :rofl:


If Selma will let me average with her, that'll get us each to 2.
Since BigJon's gone over the top, we'll let him have the 0.1's. He'll need a few of them, because KitKat is rapidly growing and wont be a 0.3 for long!
Last edited by piqaboo on Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Population

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:52 pm

dai bread wrote:"Dai Bread has posted much more elegantly than I regarding the agricultural mafias that exist in Europe and, alas, the U.S. Maybe he can elaborate more."

Not off-hand, unfortunately. The influence of these people crops up sporadically, and is dealt with at the time as best we can. I read the articles and move on, but here is a bit of history.

When Britain first proposed joining the EU, back when it was the EEC, we sent Govt. Minister after Minister, and diplomats as well, to Brussels, Paris, London, and Bonn (this was well before the collapse of the Wall) pleading for continued access to (mainly) the British market, where 90% of our exports went. Eventually, after several years, we got a small quota for Europe, and arrangements were made regarding Britain, which was faced with replacing a substantial quantity of cheap food at fairly short notice. (You don't hurry agriculture).

General de Gaulle did us a big favour by continually rejecting Britain's application. He gave us time to look around, so our Govt. officials, and others from sectional interests, were busy developing new markets while all this was going on. This was the start of our relationship with Asia, in particular at the time, Japan. Despite the misgivings of WW2 soldiers, Japan was the only realistically viable market we could work on. The US was protectionist even then, and I don't think anyone seriously considered enlarging that market. We still don't, though people keep plugging away at it.

The EU is still against us. They accept us reluctantly, because since we're not actually enemies we have to be treated reasonably, but occasionally snide comments are made. For instance, someone wrote an article saying that our cattle had less room per animal than European ones, and were therefore badly treated. You drive past a NZ farm and you really have to wonder at the isolationism that produced that article, particularly when you think of European wintering barns.

On another occasion, Fonterra, our big dairy company, got accused of subverting some regulation because they used milk from another country (I forget which one) and this should have been counted as NZ milk and Fonterra's imports reduced accordingly. That required Govt. intervention to sort out.

A German homestay girl of 16 years age told us that it was most upsetting that racehorses which aren't winners were turned into pet food. They probably are, but she knew this before she arrived here, so I wonder what Germans are told about us. Whatever it is, it doesn't stop them coming as visitors, and sometimes as immigrants. They get upset about about deerhunting too, though they seem happy to buy farmed venison.

Next time some agricultural mafioso stands up on his (or her) hind legs, I'll post a reference.


As I said, "more elegantly than I. " Don't put youself down. Very good post.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Population

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:56 pm

shostakovich wrote:It will not fell dictatorships unless the UN gets its act together as well as the countries they represent. I'm not holding my breath.


Good since the UN has never felled a dictatorship, indeed the UN is controlled by dictators and despots determined to protect their kleptocracies by using UN action.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Population

Postby shostakovich » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:20 pm

I'm certainly not disagreeing with you here. The quote below was just to point out that the spread of knowledge through the internet will not diminish population ---------- but the continued slaughter will.
Shos

shostakovich wrote:Haggis, the internet can bring truth (or propaganda) to the world. No question. It will not fell dictatorships unless the UN gets its act together as well as the countries they represent. I'm not holding my breath. It will be cold comfort for people to know why they are being slaughtered (mainly Africa for generations). And, speaking of truth, it would be refreshing if we could believe everything our own government gives us. However, we know better, thanks in large part to the internet.
Shos
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Re: Population

Postby dai bread » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:28 am

One of the joys of reading this BB is that I get unedited comments from real Americans on a range of American topics.

Most of the information I get comes from a few sources: Associated Press, Reuters, the BBC and occasionally CNN & ABC. The NZ Herald reprints articles from the British Telegraph Group and Independent, but they don't say where those papers got their information from.

America gets a bad press, and it's not all GWB's fault. He just made an existing problem worse. News reports are in direct contrast to personal reports I get from people who have actually been to the U.S., so I take the news with a big lump of salt. Believe it or not, I've even seen a good report of LA Airport. Only one, mind you, and even its writer was bemused about it, wondering if he'd struck some curiously good day.

This is why the internet is so hated by dictators. People can get information direct from inhabitants of a country, and get other opinions about things the local dictator wants to keep hidden.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: Population

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:13 am

shostakovich wrote:I'm certainly not disagreeing with you here. The quote below was just to point out that the spread of knowledge through the internet will not diminish population ---------- but the continued slaughter will.
Shos


And you regard continued slaughter as a GOOD thing as long as it "diminish population"?!?!?

Man, there's a ruthless side of you I haven't seen before.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Population

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:23 am

....although, to be fair to Shos, I have to say that I heartily approve of this method of population control.

Texas has executed Mexican-born condemned prisoner Jose Medellin for the rape and murder of two teenage girls 15 years ago.
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Re: Population

Postby shostakovich » Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:33 pm

For the record, I do NOT consider slaughter a good method of population control. :twisted:
However, I DO consider gay marriage a good thing for its affect on population. :wink:
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Re: Population

Postby dai bread » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:25 am

Further to my post above, this may be of interest:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=16&objectid=10525797

The United States' dairy sector is looming as a major stumbling block for any New Zealand-USA free trade agreement (FTA).

There has been increasing optimism in New Zealand about such a deal - either as a bilateral FTA or as part of an expanded "P4" trading block with New Zealand Chile, Singapore and Brunei - but American farm lobbyists worry that NZ dairy exports could flood their domestic market.

In the heartland of US dairying, Wisconsin, a Democrat congressional candidate, Roger Kittelson has warned industry in the state could be in trouble if a free trade agreement with New Zealand materialises.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: Population

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:36 am

dai bread wrote:Further to my post above, this may be of interest:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=16&objectid=10525797

The United States' dairy sector is looming as a major stumbling block for any New Zealand-USA free trade agreement (FTA).

There has been increasing optimism in New Zealand about such a deal - either as a bilateral FTA or as part of an expanded "P4" trading block with New Zealand Chile, Singapore and Brunei - but American farm lobbyists worry that NZ dairy exports could flood their domestic market.

In the heartland of US dairying, Wisconsin, a Democrat congressional candidate, Roger Kittelson has warned industry in the state could be in trouble if a free trade agreement with New Zealand materialises.


Is it the height of lunacy or maybe a paean to modern methods of transportation to presume a dairy industry 8,000 miles away threatens the entire state of Wisconsin?

Sigh, one last 1/4 pound of Anchor in the fridge; can I apply to NZ for foreign aid?
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Population

Postby Shapley » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:59 am

In the heartland of US dairying, Wisconsin, a Democrat congressional candidate, Roger Kittelson has warned industry in the state could be in trouble if a free trade agreement with New Zealand materialises.


Typical protectionist nonsense. :mad:
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Re: Population

Postby piqaboo » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:12 am

in the heartland of US dairying, Wisconsin,
:roll:
That would be the literal heartland, ie the emotional center), because California considerably outproduces Wisconsin in dairy products. We survived NZ produce imports, we survived Chilean produce imports, I'm sure CA will survive NZ dairy imports.
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Re: Population

Postby jamiebk » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:17 am

Honestly, I don't care where our produce comes from as along as it is fresh, clean, top quality, and affordable. Naturally, I hate to see the US (CA, in particular) hurt by imports. I do try to "eat local" when possible (i.e. in season), but I still want fresh ripe produce out of season. So it's got to come from somewhere... (PS...I LOVE our local farmer's markets)
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