U.S. Shari'a watch

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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby dai bread » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:37 pm

This from fiji.govt.fj

Public Holidays - 2009

Cabinet has approved the declaration of specified dates as public holidays for the year 2009.


These are as follows:

New Year’s Day - Thursday, 1st January

Prophet Mohammed’s Birthday - Monday, 9th March

Youth Day - Monday, 23rd March

Good Friday - Friday, 10th April

Easter Saturday - Saturday, 11th April

Easter Monday - Monday, 13th April

Ratu Sir Lala Sukuna Day - Friday, 29th May

Queen’s Birthday - Monday, 15th June

Fiji Day - Monday, 12th October

Diwali - Monday, 19th October

Christmas Day - Friday, 25th December

Boxing Day - Monday, 28th December

They used to have a holiday that went by the delightful name of Govind Singh's Birthday. don't ask me who he was.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:45 am

FREE SPEECH UPDATE: You still can't write about Muhammad.

Will other religious groups take the lesson that violence works? Because, in a world of the spineless especially our spineless MSM, it does, and at very low cost. Thanks, guys, for establishing this incentive structure.
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:56 am

Serenity wrote:
Shapley wrote:
Haggis@wk wrote: The schools have already self-imposed bans on Jewish and Christian occasions and eliminated Halloween observances to cater to the Muslims who are offended. All of this, mind you, in publicly financed schools.


The Public Schools around here have banned Halloween in response to Christian opposition. Interestingly, most of the Christian schools have Halloween parties....


You're a little too paranoid about the middle east cultures invading our culture and customs. How come the muslims haven't invaded Texas yet? What's your secret? Maybe you can enlighten other states as to muslim-control!


You and I have been here before.

Serenity wrote:
Never mind. I see you have a strong anti-islamic bent, judging by your last four posts and several threads in The Debate Team targeting Middle East topics. For someone who has studied Middle East politics extensively, I find it disturbing that I have not read in your posts something good about muslims, something with a positive slant, something that would break the typical stereotype and fear Westerners have and lead people to reconsider their views and be more open to other ideologies.

If you define historically accurate and verifiable facts as "stereotype" then you got it in one.

I (challenge) encourage you to start a list of "something good about muslims, something with a positive slant, something that would break the typical stereotype and fear Westerners have and lead people to reconsider their views and be more open to other ideologies." so we can discuss their merits. Maybe you can start another thread so as not to take away from this one?

It seems we have something in common. I've lived, "studied Middle East politics extensively" and/or fought in the Middle East since I was 10. I know Moderate Arabs and Radical Muslims; they are not always the same. I loved living in Libya and hope that someday after kadhaffi I can take my wife and show her Leptis Magna and Sabratha. I recently found all of my father's slides and have started to scan them. I'll post them on my website (at least the non-family nice views of Libya ones)

To make sure we are on a level playing field let me know which English language version of the Koran you're using. I have the Pickthall's that my mother bought in Tripoli in 1957. I also have Bell's and can borrow a copy of Arberry's but I prefer Pickthall's simply because it was the first one I read.

I haven't really looked at any recent translations so if you have something later let me know and I'll go get a copy. To be truthful, I'm very wary of the later translations since most of those were after the Saudi's began to “homogenize” some of the harsher verses so I'll probably be a tad skeptical of any translation after the 60's.

Unless you are able to read from the original? I confess I don't read Arabic so I'll be at a disadvantage.

Let me know.


Why do you think I'm paranoid? I've only posted factual comments taken from the media. As for Texas it is being touted as the fastest building Muslim community in the U.S. Remember that this is the only religion in the U.S. who's places of worship and religious instructors come from outside the U.S.
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby Serenity » Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:56 pm

:arrow:
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:06 am

You've only posted factual comments from the media? I thought you had little regard for the media; I am also wary of the media.

I generally accept that stories such as these are relatively correct. To believe otherwise, that the stories might be false, suggests the newspapers are deliberately targeting Muslims in the U.S. A theory already disproved given how cowardly our MSM react in the face Muslim disapproval. Remember the outrages at all the American papers after they published the Muhammad cartoons? Yeah, neither do I.


…Yet, I give Religion the benefit of the doubt and attempt to accept and respect others' beliefs as far as it concerns their own decisions and impacts their own lives; I draw the line when it impacts my choice of lifestyle. In this regard we are in agreement and I understand your concern for the impact they cause on our lives, within our own set of rules.

Congratulation, I don’t think I could have said it better or agree with you more. You don’t think that demands that you not just respect but accede (and I chose my words carefully here) to religious observances to the exclusion of your beliefs or feeling aren’t impacting your “lifestyle” already?

To the best of my recollection I’ve only posted or commented on those activities that I feel have strayed beyond the realm of common respect we owe to others, whether it be religious tolerance or tolerance for the lady who dresses up her cats. You are correct that I am openly critical of behavior that would not pass the “substitute” test, i.e. would the local school, governments, etc approve of the activity if you substituted “Mormon,” “Catholic,” or “Baptist” for “Muslim”

What worries me is the tone of this thread. Are you not worried that it is being "monitored" by an unfriendly subgroup of Islam?

Here personally? No. But are you totally unaware of the demonstrations in New York, DC and elsewhere by enraged American Muslims calling for the death of other Americans who disagree or criticize them? Or the demonstrations at UCLA in California, apparently with college approval, by Muslims calling for the “elimination” of American Jews? If you don’t believe your “lifestyle” is not already under attack you really aren’t paying much attention. Or do you just think calls for death of Americans to be no more significant than calls for lowering the speed limits?

Don't you think you may be inciting a bit of hatred against muslims in general who live in the U.S. and are just trying to make a living (maybe living the American dream) when you point the finger-of-attention at them while highlighting stereotypes or behaviors tinged with your apprehensions about what they may be doing that will affect what you may be choosing to do?

Do you think so? Have you been to a local Mosque and shared your feelings of disquiet that an overweight 60-year-old man in North Texas is persecuting them? To “point the finger-of-attention at them” requires that I have said or made up hurtful comments, or claims unsubstantiated by any independence verification. I will immediately withdraw and apologize if I have done so, please elaborate.

I will leave the option of starting a thread of the benefits of Islam to someone more knowledgeable than I.

I apologize if I made you uncomfortable. I just took your earlier comment at face value that;

For someone who has studied Middle East politics extensively, I find it disturbing that I have not read in your posts something good about muslims, something with a positive slant, something that would break the typical stereotype and fear Westerners have and lead people to reconsider their views and be more open to other ideologies.

you were capable of taking on that task.


Maybe you should change your "watch" from Sharia to "odd news" about all religions or beliefs that you find incomprehensible; at least it does not narrow it down to one group.

I’ll do that if you’ll identify one other “one group” who threatens to kill you if you publish or even look at a newspaper cartoon. Otherwise you are trying to legitimize and equate “one group” whose beliefs are antithetical with our way of life and “other religions or beliefs that you find incomprehensible.” Don't you think that it is a little reckless make those moral-less equivocations? Or do you think that Sati is the equivalent of Communion? Additionally if I were less understanding I could make a pretty good case that your comments are condescending and bigoted. It seems that some people look down on others who might challenge their comfortable beliefs or characterize them as ignorant or racist or stupid.Fortunately, I don't believe that :rofl:


When I visualize a school bully targeting any kid because this kid is "weird", "a nerd", "four-eyes", "stupid", "funny-looking", "freckly", etc., and peers just stand around without doing anything to remedy what they perceive to be an injustice or take sides with the bully to feel they are empowered, then I feel we are not fulfilling our duty as role models that follow their conscience and hierarchy of beliefs to make our world a better place to live.

But what do you do when you personally fear that “bully” regardless of why he’s targeting any one else for his abuse? Do you stand up to him and tell him to stop knowing full well that he might turn on you? Or are you just going to mentally rail against his inability to accept that the world is a complex place where everyone should just “get along”?

What will you do when the possibility of being a “role model” just might get you hurt?

Or maybe you just hope he will go away and leave you alone. Don't worry if you do, you aren't alone.
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:47 am

Haggis@wk wrote:FREE SPEECH UPDATE: You still can't write about Muhammad.


Maybe you missed this, but it goes to the very heart of my previous post.

Random House feared the book would become a new “Satanic Verses,” the Salman Rushdie novel of 1988 that led to death threats, riots and the murder of the book’s Japanese translator, among other horrors. In an interview about Ms. Jones’s novel, Thomas Perry, deputy publisher at Random House Publishing Group, said that it “disturbs us that we feel we cannot publish it right now.” He said that after sending out advance copies of the novel, the company received “from credible and unrelated sources, cautionary advice not only that the publication of this book might be offensive to some in the Muslim community, but also that it could incite acts of violence by a small, radical segment.”


Give me an example of this kind of fear involving any other religion. If you can't, your argument is completely invalid and unsupportable.
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby Serenity » Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:30 pm

:roll:
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby jamiebk » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:10 am

Did anyone see the banner that was at the top of this topic? It was for a Muslim Matrimonial service....
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:09 pm


I accede more to the religious observances of Christianity prevalent in our society than I do to other religious practices.


James Hilton’s character Chang once said, “It is possible that many religions are moderately true.”

That always stuck with me. It gives me my own personal yardstick by which I judge the value of any religion. So, in turns I am argumentative, supercilious, and - the despised bane of modern Liberalism - judgmental


I Googled “Muslim demonstrations in America” and could not find any of the incidents you list in the first few pages of results.

To paraphrase the words of the Knight Templar “You googled, poorly”


A Queens based Al-Muhajiroun leader said he would be "absolutely honored" to give up his life in a "martyr operation" against American civilians.

Yousef al-Khattab, who runs RevolutionMuslim.com from his home in Queens, told FOX News that he also wants the U.S. to embrace Islam and Sharia Law, which prohibits alcohol and can include stoning to death or severe flogging for pre-marital sex and adultery.

while U.S. Muslims are largely the picture of assimilation, about a quarter of Muslims ages 18 to 29 said the use of suicide bombing against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified, at least on rare occasions.

But you know what? Find your own. They are out there, look for MSA’s activites on the UCLA campuses.


I don’t believe that “pointing” requires anything having been said. If I go to any public place and simply hold up my finger and point at someone without uttering a word, do you think others will stop and look and wonder why I am pointing and start coming up with their own explanations?

Then your comment is incorrect; I didn’t point “without uttering a word.” I have been very verbal in my “pointing” criticisms and comments. I suspect that few here can imagine me ever pointing without saying what’s on my mind.



No need to apologize, you did not make me uncomfortable. I was just saying that you are more knowledgeable about the Middle East than I and was just wondering why I have not seen more of a balance between “good experiences versus bad experiences”.

You are moving the goal posts. You originally said
Serenity wrote: I have not read in your posts something good about muslims, something with a positive slant,


As for “good experiences versus bad experiences”. I can go on for hours. For both, I can cite Lt. Ali Al-Mousa spouting his poetry while driving me around mountainous roads near Khamis Mushayt while steering with his knees so he can use his hands to emphasize the important parts of his poem. Our maid Selma in Libya in 1957 teaching my 5 year old sister to sing popular Arabic ballads. The two days I tried to observe Ramadan (well, one actually, most of one). Trying to find decent nam bread in North Texas. Possible but never as fresh as I remembered. The Somali gunman who killed PFC Domingo Arroyo.

The “one group” you are talking about is the second largest religion in the world behind Christianity. You are saying that Muslims are threatening to kill us because our beliefs are in direct opposition to their way of life. That’s like reducing Christianity to a skinhead view of society.

Inherent in the Islamic belief-system is the proposition that anyone who insults Muhammad should be killed. That is why Muslims so easily resort to threats of violence against those who say things about Muhammad that they don't like.

No sect of Christianity teaches that anyone one who insults Jesus should be killed. And your attempt to somehow equate violent Skinhead behavior presumably with radically violent Islamists to show that while both religions are similar they do have their dark side is odious sophistry of the worst kind; moralizing equivalence.

The most virulently fundamentalist Christian cannot find any sanction in Jesus' teaching for the murder of his opponents. Period.

It does not make every Muslim a terrorist for me to point this out, and it isn't bigoted to do so, either. I simply state a series of facts -- and if anyone wishes to try to prove that the facts I have asserted here are false, I welcome the challenge. Islamic violence and beliefs of supremacy are not aberrations taught by a few marginal fanatics and abhorred by most Muslims.

The solution to antithesis is synthesis; the formation or composition of something new and coherent by integrating diametrically opposing views.

Well, you know, as Marx said, “It’s only a theory”

Equivocate: to use ambiguous expressions with a view to mislead.
Moral: relating to principles of right and wrong.


Yes, exactly, that’s what you have been doing. You are afraid to judge, all Liberals are because to judge is to realize that you might be somehow perceived as being superior.

No, I don’t think I am trying to mislead or confuse what is right and wrong. I only want to understand reasons behind behaviors….and I do not ask to make my stance appear superior or disdainful of others. You can’t understand others without trying to put yourself in “their shoes”.

In my lifetime I have seen many, many people with whom I had no desire to “understand.” But possibly my viewpoint has been simplified and coarsened over the years.

Rapists, child abusers and murderers needed to be caught and isolated from the rest of our community and that what I tried to do. People who tried to kill me were instead killed first. And now Islamic nut jobs that have vowed to kill my family need to be tracked down and killed at the first opportunity.

See? Simple, no shoes required.



Hopefully, your pain will be an inspiration to others and lead them to act despite their fears

Hopefully that will never happen.

I don’t want to disclaim you. I want to understand your point of view and beliefs.


That’s not hard at all. I dedicated my life to supporting and defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic and I maintained true faith and allegiance to the same.

I believe that our way of life is superior to any other on the planet and that any attempt by anyone to disrupt that way of life should be met with immediate and overwhealming force.

I’m fairly simple that way.


Haggis@wk wrote:
Haggis@wk wrote:FREE SPEECH UPDATE: You still can't write about Muhammad.


Random House feared the book would become a new “Satanic Verses,” the Salman Rushdie novel of 1988 that led to death threats, riots and the murder of the book’s Japanese translator, among other horrors. In an interview about Ms. Jones’s novel, Thomas Perry, deputy publisher at Random House Publishing Group, said that it “disturbs us that we feel we cannot publish it right now.” He said that after sending out advance copies of the novel, the company received “from credible and unrelated sources, cautionary advice not only that the publication of this book might be offensive to some in the Muslim community, but also that it could incite acts of violence by a small, radical segment.”


This challenges remains. Unless you can give me an example of this kind of threat involving any other religion in the U.S. your argument remains invalid and unsupportable.
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby Serenity » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:48 pm

We both know we will not find another religion in the U.S. that will mirror the extreme threats that we find in other parts of the world. We are an affluent nation and our society is built on being a “melting pot of culture”. We have our own challenges.

The further away an action or an idea is from the political, ideological or moral center of a society or group, the more radical or extreme it is. It is extreme when violence is advocated. Political
agendas that are often viewed as radical are the “far right”, “far left”, “fundamentalists”, “fanatics”, “nationalists”, “militarists”, “authoritarians”, “dictators”.

In our country, Fundamentalism started out within religious groups. Religious Fundamentalism refers to the belief that Holy Scripture is infallible, inerrant, and historically accurate and followers adhere strictly to their basic principles or fundamentals. Fundamentalism also means strong adherence to any set of beliefs, religious or not, in the face of criticism and resistance.

Islamic fundamentalists restrict themselves to literal interpretation of their texts and some Islamic conservatives advocate the replacement of secular laws with Islamic laws. This is like the more conservative Christians here advocating changes in the law to reflect their views, such as the push for Creationism or prayer in schools as one example.

More liberal Muslims drop traditional interpretations of the Koran which they find too conservative and prefer readings more adaptable to modern society. Some liberal Muslims favor the idea of modern secular democracy with separation of church and state, and thus oppose Islamism as a political movement. The existence or applicability of Islamic law is questioned by many liberals.

In America, examples of the Far Right include: Ku Klux Klan, an assortment of Neo-Nazi parties, the Nation of Islam, the Jewish Defense League, The LaRouche Network, The Christian Right, and The Church League of America. Examples of the Far Left include: The Communist Party, Marxist-Leninist Party, Progressive Labor Party, Black Panther Party, Socialist Workers Party, Workers League, etc. Other examples of extremists in America are some militia groups and religious cults; some cults end up in mass suicide, other militia and paramilitary groups generate individuals willing to bomb government buildings.

People usually use behavior as a guideline to judge someone’s actions. What motivates an individual to act is the sum of their values, the consequences of past experience, the intensity of their emotions attached to similar experiences and what they gain from their action in relationship to their system of values. Values, by the way, are not negative or positive.

Buddhists follow the eightfold path in their quest to free themselves from suffering and as a system of self-improvement; these eight steps toward self-improvement are having the Right Views, Right Thoughts, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness and Right Meditation. They all start with “Right” and having the Right Views is the essential starting point of the path. Having the Right Thoughts will free you from desire and temptation, anger and irritation, and harming others through foolish speech or action. Ever hear the popular phrase “Do what you want but do it in moderation.”

Haggis wrote:

[James Hilton’s character Chang once said, “It is possible that many religions are moderately true.”

That always stuck with me. It gives me my own personal yardstick by which I judge the value of any religion. So, in turns I am argumentative, supercilious, and - the despised bane of modern Liberalism – judgmental.]

(From Wiktionary: Supercilious) 1. Arrogantly superior; showing contemptuous indifference; haughty. Contempt = expressing disdain; showing a lack of respect.

I had never heard that word before. Supercilious sounds like a combo of “Super” and “Silly” in a funny and harmless sort of way but you define yourself pretty accurately as far as I can judge by your posts. You come off as arrogant and contemptuous and maybe that explains why many posters have left the bulletin board over the last couple of years. Those aggressive posts where you pick apart every paragraph and idea that oppose your thinking and are so intent on “smashing to smithereens” all opposition…. I think you tend to mirror the extremists you are trying to fight; not in action but in thought and I’m not sure what number to assign you on a scale from 1 – 10. I think you lack, from a Buddhist perspective, the Right Views, the Right Thoughts and the Right Speech.

In my online search engine bumbling to find a more balanced perspective on Islam, I found the following "one" report which is less skewed than your posts (in my opinion):
http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=248

I do find it challenging to filter the bias and emotional intensity that clogs the blogs.

I find your posts challenging; they challenge my thinking, and that’s good (to me). I spent the weekend thinking about you, your comments and your approach to fighting Islamic terrorism. I Googled (poorly or not), and I read news, and blogs from different viewpoints, and I got lost in my thoughts about what are the right thoughts to have, the right values to have, the right response and action to produce posts that inspire or instill “Right Action in Others”. I forgot about my immediate family and their needs. So, with this post, I may or may not respond to you any further because I feel it will not alter your opinion and it will take time away from what is more important to me personally. Although, I feel I should respond to your questions and comments because you deserve that out of respect. But, I spend most of my day working on others’ medical priorities, and I may be slow in response to your posts.

So, if you want to fight Islamic extremists, you should consider talking to Islamic Liberals (although that word makes you cringe); isn’t it ironic. Instead of boasting about being a conservative, maybe you should aim toward being a moderate. A little respect and civility toward others would help you advance your opinion.
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby Shapley » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:51 pm

Gen. Patton, in Europe at the end of the war, said of the Soviets that "We will have to fight them some day, might as well do it now while we have the army here to do it." Thus far, he has been wrong, although we've fought them by proxy in various small wars, and endured a 'cold war' with them for several decades. Ronaldus Maximus was able to defeat them without all-out war, but it required a showing that we were ready and willing to commit to all-out war in order to do so. We also had to be wary of creeping socialism and wavering levels of commitment here in the U.S. I believe we were never in more danger of failure than during the presidency of President Carter. His policies of appeasment, coupled with his weakening of our military and created a very perilous situation.

President Carter could not have ascended to power, were it not for the successful attack on the character of President Nixon, and on President Ford by virtue of his pardon of and association with him. The sins of neither man were sufficient to warrant their downfall, but a successful P.R. campaign against them resulted in their political defeat.

So it seems with the forces of radical Islam. It may be possible to defeat them without all-out war, but it will require that we show a willingness to commit to war, and vigilence against a weakening from within. I also fear that the successful pillorying of President Bush may well result in a backlash against such vigilence. I fear that Sen. Obama may well be to radical Islam what President Carter was to communism: a weak force.
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby Serenity » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:31 pm

:kickcan:
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby shostakovich » Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:46 pm

I started the population thread with the thought that a group of scientists, historians, and philosophers from all nations brainstorm for relatively benign methods of population control. I have no illusions that this will actually take place. Likewise, a similar group with the addition of religious figures should brainstorm the pluses and minuses of religions. Likewise, this won't happen.

I propose that all religions' ideas of God are wrong. The correct concept of a Creator can never be achieved by man. The "religions of the book" go back to writers whose concept of the universe was heaven and earth. They did pretty well with acceptable fantasies about the relationship of man to God. It was more understandable then as a personal relationship. But now we know the universe is vast beyond understanding. It's only ignorance and arrogance that can hold to an unchanging relationship with God. We are a pitifully insignificant species in the universe. Why would God consider us special? If we were, there would have been no need for a universe more extensive than heaven and earth.

The existence of God can not be reasoned pro or con. We should all put our religious beliefs under a microscope. My fictitious group of people who discuss these issues would include Asian religions as well. They could even come up with a "Comparitive Religion" course to be instituted in all schools. Such a course would abolish ideas like "God is on my side", "God wanted me to do it". Terrorist murderers could no longer imagine they are doing God's will. This applies to Islamic extremists who could no longer imagine a payoff in paradise. Crusaders of old and Hebrew warriors who conquered in God's name would be seen in a less than honorable light.

Not to belabor an idea that will not come to fruition, I'll just sign off.
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby Serenity » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:55 pm

:kickcan:
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby jamiebk » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:35 am

Shapley wrote:President Carter could not have ascended to power, were it not for the successful attack on the character of President Nixon,


Mr. Nixon was not attacked...he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar. A crook, a cheat, and a liar, not to mention an incredibly paranoid and self centered person.
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby Shapley » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:59 am

jamiebk wrote:Mr. Nixon was not attacked...he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar. A crook, a cheat, and a liar, not to mention an incredibly paranoid and self centered person.


And the attacks continue...
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby jamiebk » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:02 am

Shapley wrote:
jamiebk wrote:Mr. Nixon was not attacked...he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar. A crook, a cheat, and a liar, not to mention an incredibly paranoid and self centered person.


And the attacks continue...


I attack no one. I only state what was found to be true about the man, unless you care to deny his involvement in covering up illegal acts. Is a criminal deemed to be "attacked" because he is caught and brought to justice? In Nixon's case, he chose to quit rather than face impeachment.
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby OperaTenor » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:15 am

Jamie, you have to understand, if you gore one of Shap's sacred cows with pertinent facts, that constitutes an attack.

And it only works in one direction....
"To help mend the world is true religion."
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby Shapley » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:34 am

jamiebk wrote:I attack no one. I only state what was found to be true about the man, unless you care to deny his involvement in covering up illegal acts. Is a criminal deemed to be "attacked" because he is caught and brought to justice? In Nixon's case, he chose to quit rather than face impeachment.


Which was the honourable thing to do. I'm not saying that he was without blemish, but he was attacked relentlessly, and they finally found something to nail him with, in much the manner that President Bush and Vice President Cheney are being attacked today. So far, however, they have found nothing to stick on them.

President Nixon had a long and distingquished career in public service. His accomplishments were many, and he made a great deal of enemies along the way. When evidence of vote fraud emerged in the 1960 election, he refused to pursue it, claiming that he would not be part of a Constitutional crisis, just so that he could become President. When the watergate scandal broke, he resigned from office, also so that he would not be part of a Constitutional crisis, just so that he could remain president.

Among the "abuse of power" charges levied against him was his invocation of executive priviledge in opposing the release of the "Pentagon Papers". Those papers, which dealt primarily with the actions of the Kennedy and Johnson administrations in Vietnam, would not harm him policitally. However, he felt that their release was a serious breach of security, and that it was necessary to fight to prevent their publication. He lost that fight, with the result (IMHO) that leaking classified documents has become de rigueur in political circles today. Once classified documents have reached the hands of the press, the government is hard pressed to prevent their publication. The government frequently takes little interest in finding the sources of the leak, even seeking to protect them with 'whistleblower' priviledge. A bad precedent, and an honourable man was tarred for opposing it.

Given the levels of abuse that preceded him, President Nixon's abuses were relatively minor. Nonetheless, he has become the symbol of abuse and corruption to many. He was, however, respected and honoured at his death, much to the chagrin of those who worked so hard to bring him down, and to those who benefitted from his fall from power.

V/R
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Re: U.S. Shari'a watch

Postby Shapley » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:58 am

OperaTenor wrote:Jamie, you have to understand, if you gore one of Shap's sacred cows with pertinent facts, that constitutes an attack.

And it only works in one direction....


Interesting. Nixon should be a liberal icon. Nixon imposed wage and price controls, indexed Social Security for inflation, and created Supplemental Security Income. He fought for a national minimum wage and for universal health care. He ended the gold standard, and created the Environmental Protection Agency and Occupational Safety and Health Administration, He also implemented the first federal affirmative action program, and boosted federal employees's salaries.

Perhaps the liberal hate him so much because he stole so much of their thunder...

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