The Next Four Years

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The Next Four Years

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:16 am

Memo to debate posters for the Next Four Years:

With a switch from Republican to Democratic control of the White House a few weeks away, I thought I would remind everyone of the new ground rules.


1) Republicans Must Now Oppose Executive Power; Democrats Must Be In Favor Of It.
In the last few years, Republicans have been the defenders of executive power: A muscular executive has been needed to fight the war on terror. On the other hand, Democrats have opposed a strong executive on the ground that it threatens the rule of law. Please note that these arguments must now switch. Republicans must now talk of the dangers of executive power; Democrats must now speak of how a strong and agile executive branch is necessary to a modern democracy.

2) Republicans Must Now Oppose Judicial Confirmations; Democrats Must Be In Favor. In the last few years, Republicans wanted an up-or-down vote on judicial nominees. On the other hand, Democrats focused on the importance of carefully evaluating judicial candidates. Please note that these arguments must now switch, too.

3) Republicans Must Now Favor Legislative Oversight; Democrats Must Now Oppose It. You get the point by now. Yup, everyone has to switch sides on this one, too. If we all stick to the script, in 6 months the old arguments of the Bush era will be long forgotten.

Thank God the next hurricane is going to be the Democrats' fault.

Oh, and special memo to OT, Dissent is no longer patriotic
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:04 pm

Now that we have a Marxist President, its time to start arresting all the reactionaries. Your posts will betray you!
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:00 pm

NOW they tell us!?!?!?

Newsweek editor: Obama’s cult of personality is “slightly creepy,” isn’t it?

I suspect we'll be seeing a lot more of this as the MSM starts to distance itself from Obama. They just wanted to get him elected.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby Shapley » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:04 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:NOW they tell us!?!?!?

Newsweek editor: Obama’s cult of personality is “slightly creepy,” isn’t it?

I suspect we'll be seeing a lot more of this as the MSM starts to distance itself from Obama. They just wanted to get him elected.


The link seems to be wrong.....
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:51 pm

Shapley wrote: The link seems to be wrong.....


This is it. http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=214933
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:51 pm

We'll know an Obama presidency is as bad as we feared if he selects. . .

It's a game you can play for hours, if you have the stomach for it.

My first entry is: . . .if he selects John Kerry to be his Secretary of State.

My second entry is . . .if he selects Jamie Gorelick to be anything.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby piqaboo » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:33 pm

He paints the obamalogo on Airforce 1
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:46 pm

piqaboo wrote:He paints the obamalogo on Airforce 1


I'm moving to France if that happens... :rofl:
Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it.
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby shostakovich » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:50 pm

Haggis is right. Everything should reverse. In fact, it should be the job of the MSM to criticize our leaders. It's a bit early to criticize Obama for what he MIGHT do. The honeymoon with the MSM will not last a year. SNL will start on him much earlier. I don't expect too much "change" to take place, as the money for it is not available. We'll soon see.

I'd like to propose Colin Powell for Secretary of State again. Under Obama he would be allowed to actually be one. I think Gates has been pretty responsible as Secretary of Defense. He might be a keeper.
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby dai bread » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:04 am

shostakovich wrote:Haggis is right. Everything should reverse. In fact, it should be the job of the MSM to criticize our leaders. It's a bit early to criticize Obama for what he MIGHT do. The honeymoon with the MSM will not last a year. SNL will start on him much earlier. I don't expect too much "change" to take place, as the money for it is not available. We'll soon see. Shos


There's an interesting article reprinted from the Telegraph Group in this morning's NZ Herald It's by Janet Daley, and the gist of it is that the British & European Left will suspend their anti-Americanism for less than 6 months, then revert to type despite Barrack Obama.

"Would anyone like to speculate on how long it will take the British and European left wing media to revert to its default anti-Americanism after the Obama ascendancy? And how the Left will fill the vacuum in the meantime? After all, America-baiting has been the last bond sustaining the old ideological tie after the collapse of collectivism in eastern Europe. How will the Leftist cartoonists cope - the ones who were portraying George Bush as a monkey even at the time of 9/11 when much of the world was saying, "We are all Americans now"? They will presumably regard Obama's image as sacred whatever America now does. But all those Guardian comment writers who will eulogise President Obama in his victory: how will they deal with the fact that the US will remain an unapologetic free enterprise society? Maybe the gap will be filled by good old-fashioned anti-capitalism. Goodness knows, there has been a vigorous revival of that in recent weeks. But President Obama will disappoint on that score: he may muck about around the edges but the free market commitment at the heart of American life runs deep. If he tampers with it too much, his party will face huge reverses in the next round of congressional elections.

So soon life will be back to normal. Anti-Americanism cannot die: too many people need it for their own political purposes. The resumption of it will be problematic and nuanced, but they will bet there in the end.I give it six months."
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby Mahlersfifth » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:25 am

Giant Communist Robot wrote:Now that we have a Marxist President, its time to start arresting all the reactionaries. Your posts will betray you!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby analog » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:19 pm

well , GCR , they're playing with insurrection here.

Carolina Journal Exclusives
Dems Target Private Retirement Accounts
Democratic leaders in the U.S. House discuss confiscating 401(k)s, IRAs

By Karen McMahan

November 04, 2008

RALEIGH — Democrats in the U.S. House have been conducting hearings on proposals to confiscate workers’ personal retirement accounts — including 401(k)s and IRAs — and convert them to accounts managed by the Social Security Administration.

Triggered by the financial crisis the past two months, the hearings reportedly were meant to stem losses incurred by many workers and retirees whose 401(k) and IRA balances have been shrinking rapidly.

The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration.


http://carolinajournal.com/articles/dis ... ml?id=5081

no wonder gun sales are up.

a.
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:27 pm

eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs


Well, we need to pay more taxes, don't we?



confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration.


With the governments' fine fiscal track record, what could there be to complain about?
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby analog » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:28 pm

Selections from that Ghiraducci paper :

http://www.sharedprosperity.org/bp204/bp204.pdf

Guaranteed
Retirement Accounts
Toward retirement income security
b y Te r e s a Gh i l a r d u c c i

How Guaranteed Retirement
Accounts work

Structure. Guaranteed Retirement Accounts are like universal
401(k) plans except that the government, as befits
a large and enduring institution, will invest and manage
the pooled savings.
Participation. Participation in the program is mandatory
except for workers participating in equivalent or better
employer defined-benefit plans where contributions are
at least 5% of earnings and benefits take the form of life
annuities.
Contributions. Contributions equal to 5% of earnings
are deducted along with payroll taxes and credited to
individual accounts administered by the Social Security
Administration..........

From Table 2, we see that taxpayers making over
$75,000 would, on average, see a reduction in their
after-tax income under the Guaranteed Retirement
Account plan. Could a proposal that costs wealthy
people a valuable tax break have legs? Perhaps. The key is
knowing that even among higher-income households—
those in the top 40%—nearly half (48%) received no
tax benefit from contributing to defined-contribution
plans or IRAs in 2004—and some who did would still
have been better off under the Guaranteed Retirement
Account system. Meanwhile, only 13% of households
in the bottom 60% received a tax benefit.15 In other words,
the majority of Americans, across the income spectrum,
would benefit from a fairer and more effective retirement savings plan.



you see the $250K is already down to 75.
This is feeding the ants to the grasshoppers.

Keep your powder dry.


LATE ENTRY: more careful perusal revealed this phrase:
Accumulations
in 401(k) plans and other retirement plans that exist
before the bill goes into effect will be treated under the
old tax rules.


leading me to think the headline about "confiscation" might be spin by overactive consetrvative.

Sorry -

a.
Last edited by analog on Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby analog » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:33 pm

Your posts will betray you!


i don't have a good poker face anyway.
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby Serenity » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:30 pm

:!:
Last edited by Serenity on Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby Shapley » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:41 pm

Serenity wrote:How about money that people designate for retirement not be taxed ever :!:


And we'll all be a drinkin' that free Bubble-ub, and eatin' that Rainbow Stew!

You're not likely to get the government to drop a chance to tax earnings. The current plan defers taxes on retirement accounts until you draw money from the account. Presumably, that will occur at a time when you have little or no additional income, so your tax rate will be lower because of your reduced income. You will pay now or pay later, death and taxes being the only certainties in life.....

Under the absurd proposal by Teresa Ghilarducci, which was presented before the Democrats in Congress, you'll pay now and later....
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby OperaTenor » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:28 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:Oh, and special memo to OT, Dissent is no longer patriotic


Dang. that means you'll have to agree with *everything* President Obama says.

(I'm going to get really tired of writing out "President Obama" all the time, so to be fair, as I referred to the current occupant as "GWB", I'll refer to Obama as BHO. Happy?)
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby OperaTenor » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:41 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:We'll know an Obama presidency is as bad as we feared if he selects. . .

It's a game you can play for hours, if you have the stomach for it.

My first entry is: . . .if he selects John Kerry to be his Secretary of State.

My second entry is . . .if he selects Jamie Gorelick to be anything.



Okay, in response to all of the speculative tail-chasing currently underway, led by a vacuous media:

Everyone has to admit BHO ran the slickest campaign in history. Whether he micromanaged every detail or picked people to carry out his agenda, I believe the brilliance of it is his responsibility. From what I've learned about the man, he's quintessentially deliberative to boot.

He also seemingly has zero political debt to any one entity, also thanks to the way he waged his campaign.

He now has two months to assemble his team and prepare to take office. Do y'all really think he's going to fumble at this point and make bone-headed picks for his staff. John Kerry as SoS?! Haggis, you can't really believe he's that stupid. (My money's on Bill Richardson for that job, FWIW)

Of course, I think his biggest challenge will be muzzling Pelosi and Reid. I get the impression there's not a lot of love there.

Lastly, the man has the s$$*ttiest job on the planet, IMO. GWB has left him with a socioeconomic shambles, and BHO's credibility as a leader will be how he can begin the process of digging out of it. If he doesn't, he can look forward to new opportunities in the private sector in four years(if some whacko doesn't take him out first).

That's another thing:

The vitriol tacitly encouraged by primarily Palin is disgusting and vile. I understand she went kind of rogue in doing that, and that the McCain campaign had not authorized that line of attack. If some future assassin or wannabe cites being told to by the McCain/Palin campaign by virtue of that rhetoric, remember you heard it here first.
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Re: The Next Four Years

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:13 pm

muzzling Pelosi and Reid.

A noble goal. I approve wholeheartedly.

I lacked enthusiasm for either of the two main candidates, we'll see how the new administration works out. It's my hope that Mr. Obama can find a foreign affairs staff with both some experience in the field and personalities to fit well with the rest of his team. Domestic stuff - well, I don't have a clue where to start on that spaghetti ball.
>^..^<
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