The Next Vice-President?

[analog]

[

OMG...that was hilarious! SNL could not have set that up better.

how low will they go to embarass someone ?

like beauty, crudeness is in the eye of.....

[Shapley]

Serenity,

Most people here in the States don't eat dogs and cats, knowingly at least. Horse meat is also taboo, although it is just meat, and is popular in other parts of the world. We do eat things like racoons and opossums, as well as squirrels and rabbits and rattlesnakes. It is deer season here, so there will be lots of deer meat processed in the next few days. I can't imagine that deer meat and horse meat are that different, but I eat deer meat and haven't, as far as I know, tasted horse flesh.

In the novel Spartacus, a Roman sausage maker buys many of the slaves killed after their defeat in the Servile War, to be processed for sausage. The filmmakers left that part out in the movie.

V/R
Shapley

[Haggis@wk]

Sure, turkeys are pretty easy to dismiss, especially at Thanksgiving. Oh those wimpy liberals are trying to ruin Thanksgiving for my family! How come we don't eat horse meat for Thanksgiving? How come we don't cook Dog meat for Thanksgiving? I'm sure dogs are plentiful. How far are you willing to go? Why not take people on death row for meat instead of wasting all that protein? What the heck! You could practice your gun skills by shooting them yourself by giving them a running chance out of prison!

I think Nana and Papa laugh nervously.

I can direct you to several stores and websites that sell dog and horse meat if you want. I don't think cat is sold for human consumption in the U.S. but that is probably more because people don't like the flavor but that's just a guess on my part.

As for your other comments I'll just assume it's your typical over the top rhetorical rant you employ when you have no other salient points to bring to the discussion.

I assume you are a vegan? No turkey, chicken, ham, for thanksgiving?

[dai bread]

A Vietnamese man was arrested here a few years ago for roasting a road-kill cat over an open fire. I don't think he got a chance to eat it. He was told we don't do that here, and let go.

[Haggis@wk]

A Vietnamese man was arrested here a few years ago for roasting a road-kill cat over an open fire. I don't think he got a chance to eat it. He was told we don't do that here, and let go.

Was he arrested for cooking the cat or an open fire? Here, if he could prove it was his or that he didn't have anything to do with its death, we would wish him bon appetit.

The U.S. is amazingly tolerant of people's stupid behavior as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else or involve a spate of serial catnappings.

Most Americans are shock to learn that religious services involving animal sacrifice go on legally in the U.S. all the time. The only provision is there is no undue suffering on the part of the animal.

I don't think I've eaten dog but since I had mongolian barbeque in Korea I can't swear to it. I believe I ate horse (pony) once a long time ago (scotch was involved) but since I had tempted fate more than once by eating haggis (COPIOUS scotch was involved) I figured a little stringy horse was okay.

During survival training I ate snake as well as tree rats. On the last day one of the guys managed to trap a beaver but I declined that delicacy.

[Shapley]

We've cooked rattlesnake here a time or two, but that was long ago. They're protected species now, so they're off the menu...

Squirrels were common on the dinner plate when I was younger, as was rabbit. The Navy used to serve lots of rabbit when I was in Orlando, apparently it was readily available there. I don't think I've eaten dog, but I've eaten at some questionable Chinese joints, so it is possible. I've eaten "monkey-on-a-stick", that mystery meat that used to be cooked on Hibachis in Olongapo City, Philippine Islands. The bar girls assured us it wasn't monkey, but I note that they never ate any. I never ate a balut, but I've been at the table where it was served. (Chicken abortions, that's what the bar girls called them.)

A local civic group used to hold an annual 'Tamale Day'. It was always noted that every stray cat in town disappeared a few days before then. I'm not sayin' there was a connection, but......

[piqaboo]

i think its not the image of the draining turkeys, tho I know some who were very bothered by it. I think it reeks of inattention to "pardon" one and then be filmed with that footage. Given how often SP says 'this is fun!', I'd rather she'd shown up to pick out her turkey in person and wait while it was slaughtered. The pardon be dumb. The footage makes she look dumb. The guy doing the slaugtering tries to block the view of spasming bird from the camera. Its kinda funny, to watch him. I think he was trying to protect her image.

[Haggis@wk]

The NYT referred to it as "execution." You have to marvel at the sheer stupidity on display.

[Shapley]

i think its not the image of the draining turkeys, tho I know some who were very bothered by it. I think it reeks of inattention to "pardon" one and then be filmed with that footage. Given how often SP says 'this is fun!', I'd rather she'd shown up to pick out her turkey in person and wait while it was slaughtered. The pardon be dumb. The footage makes she look dumb. The guy doing the slaugtering tries to block the view of spasming bird from the camera. Its kinda funny, to watch him. I think he was trying to protect her image.

Pardoning the gubernatorial (and presidential) turkey has become an expected tradition, though I think it is entirely silly. If the governor (or President) is going to eat turkey on thanksgiving, they ought to eat the one offered, and not go through the charade of 'pardoning' one while having another slaughtered for their consumption. I'm not sure what Gov. Palin's intent was, but I think, to some extent, she was trying to convey that point - that the pardon is a farce and that wholesale slaughter goes on, whether she pardons one or not.

Do we really even know that the 'pardoned' turkeys go on to live to see that, or the next, Thanksgiving? I don't believe they're tagged, so I imagine that, if someone actually came to the turkey ranch and asked for a particularl 'pardoned' turkey, the owner might point to any older turkey in the flock and say "There he is". No one would be the wiser.

[jamiebk]

How else is one to kill a turkey (humanely)? I can certainly live with the knowledge of where the meat I eat comes from. I have skinned and dressed many a deer and boar. OK...it's NOT a pretty thing, but unless you want to give up meat, it is reality. More people should understand that meat doesn't just magically show up in the stores in little styrofoam packages with plastic wrap on it.

[Shapley]

Here, BTW, is what she actually said as she pardoned the turkey:

"I, Sarah Palin, governor of Alaska, anticipating and hoping that in the spirit of Thanksgiving, Alaskans everywhere will find adequate nourishment elsewhere and without this particular turkey I do hereby grant Thanksgiving a full amnesty and pardon and it is so ordered and we will pick one of the big Toms."

I think she was making it clear that she intended that a turkey be slaughtered for her benefit, and that 'this particular turkey' was the only one that was going to get off the hook....

Bravo!

[Serenity]

I was just feeling sorry for the turkey and what it must be like to have your blood drained upside down until you lose consciousness. If you had your choice among the different ways animals are "sacrificed" as a way of dying yourself, which would you choose? Most people who commit suicide shoot themselves, overdose or hang themselves. Whatever happened to slicing their wrists in a warm bath? I haven't heard of people hanging themselves from their ankles and slicing at their jugular. I'm sorry that this is very crude but that's how crude it seemed to me with the turkey in the background. Yes, I know I tend to go into rants (my bad impersonation of Dennis Miller rants) but I'm trying to: raise awareness, shock, offer a different point of view, make you reflect, search your feelings about the situation, maybe have you think of a kinder alternative. I would have preferred to see S. Palin draining the turkey herself while being interviewed.....SNL, here's a skit!

I am hoping to see a post of a softer side to Haggis instead of the old crusty, complaining, "Yosemite Sam-type" huffin-n-puffin......"I hates that rabbit!"...."I'm gonna blast that varmint to smithereens!" Any sincere concern over those less fortunate instead of the "serves them right" justification? Do you feel sorry for anyone? Do you give anyone the benefit of the doubt and set your ideas aside and just say, "I better help this person (whether I agree or disagree with what they think) because they just look like they need help". Have you tried to understand someone who is gay? Or someone who is muslim? Have you doubted your beliefs or your habits? Do you think you can improve yourself? How? You don't have to answer any of these questions on the board; just reflect on them for your own benefit. You can send me a PM if you wish.

Oh yeah, I'm not vegan; I'm a meat lover. Turkey is delicious when properly prepared but I prefer farmed, midwest Ostrich. I've had snake, iguana, snake, goat, deer, dog too; not rodents nor insects. Americans prefer muscle as protein but I've eaten organs. There is so much food on TG that I will just have one tablespoon of everything available on my plate. I'll have to check which charities will take what.

[barfle]

I was just feeling sorry for the turkey and what it must be like to have your blood drained upside down until you lose consciousness.

I would imagine it's a lot better way to die than the way most wild animals die - by having your guts ripped out while you're still conscious.

While I didn't see the turkey slaughter video, I have seen fowl slaughtered, and they are generally decapitated. I realize that I have no personal experience with decapitation, so I'm unable to grade the level of unpleasantness of such a process, but I've heard stories of how quickly one loses consciousness when their heart stops. It doesn't take long but a couple of seconds.

Extrapolating that to a species with a brain the size of a cashew isn't really valid, either. I tend toward the idea that we civilized westerners prefer that our meat animals be slaughtered as quickly and painlessly as possible without damaging the really tasty parts. Maybe crushing the entire head with a hammer blow would mean a fraction of a second less time between trauma and death, but I'm not sure what all that head mush would do to the flavor of the meat.

If you had your choice among the different ways animals are "sacrificed" as a way of dying yourself, which would you choose?

As I understand it, the captive bolt stunner is virtually instantaneous if applied correctly.

[Shapley]

If you had your choice among the different ways animals are "sacrificed" as a way of dying yourself, which would you choose?

As I understand it, the captive bolt stunner is virtually instantaneous if applied correctly.

Did I write that? I don't recall it. Or, are you getting me back for misappropriating quotes in our earlier discusssions?

I had some chickens for a while and, for reasons beyond my being able to explain, would up with a very high ration of roosters-to-hens. Far too many roosters. Mean roosters, too. One of them, in particular, was exceedingly aggressive. He managed to dig his spur into my knee, and I was left hobbling around for a week. When it came time to 'thin the herd', he was selected as the first to go.

I asked around about the methods for killing them, and all the advice came down to one method, holding them upside down and decapitating them. I caught the offending rooster and held him upside down. They crane their necks back when you do this, making the process rather simple. Following the advice I was given, I placed a shovel-handle across the neck and, standing on the shovel-handle, pulled the body from the head. I then released the body to let it 'run around like a chicken with it's head cut off', as my mother used to accuse me of doing. The headless rooster ran around for a few minutes, or maybe it was just a minute, but finally fell dead. I am confident that, sans head, it did not feel any pain as it was bled out.

I've seen other animals die: shot, run over, bludgeoned, killed by dogs, killed by other animals, etc. All in all, I think the decapitation is probably as humane as any of them.

[BigJon@Work]

Yes, the guillotine was considered a more humane capital punishment machine at its invention.

[barfle]

Did I write that? I don't recall it. Or, are you getting me back for misappropriating quotes in our earlier discusssions?

Oops. Make that "Serenety". Mixed up my "S" words.

[barfle]

I remember seeing a movie where a Mexican wedding was taking place, and one of the young men told the kids to bring him a couple of chickens. The kids ran around chasing the chickens and eventually brought two of them to him. He held them both by the head and twirled them around for a few seconds, then pulled the heads off. The kids looked a little shocked, but I don't remember them turning down the dinner.

Of course, there is the passage in Carmina Burana where the swan is lamenting being roasted.

Once I lived on lakes,
once I looked beautiful
when I was a swan.

Misery me!
Now black
and roasting fiercely!

The servant is turning me on the spit;
I am burning fiercely on the pyre;
the steward now serves me up.

Misery me!
Now black
and roasting fiercely!

Now I lie on a plate,
and I cannot fly anymore
I see bared teeth:

Misery me!
now black
and roasting fiercely!

[jamiebk]

Once the head is removed, severing the main nerve trunk to the brain, I do not think that there is anyway for pain receptors to be triggered. Mind you, I do not wish to be decapitated, but as gruesome as it appears, this is probably fairly painless...other than the blast of the initial cut.

With the guillotine, there are stories about whether the "head" is capable of looking back at the severed body once separated...that it stays "alive" and conscious for moments after the severing...I really don't know how anyone would know or prove that.

It's all rather disgusting, but I am not about to stop eating chicken/meat

[Mahlersfifth]

What was that guy doing? Was he bleeding the turkey's blood into that basin? I feel ambivalent. Wouldn't you struggle for your life if someone hung you by your ankles, sliced your jugular veins and waited for your blood to drain as you lost consciousness? When I taste Tommy Turkey next Thursday, this video will pop in my mind and I may just feast all vegetarian and still feel guilty knowing that I "pig out" while others in the world are starving.

I saw this clip last week on another website and I thought, dear god, I can't eat turkey any more. Another meat off my list. I am slowly becoming a vegetarian.

[analog]

Mean roosters, too. One of them, in particular, was exceedingly aggressive.

i still vividly remember a rooster tale from my childhood. Grandma's '49 Ford coupe , named "Buttons & Bows", was still shiny new then......that's how old this story is.

it was summer when we visited grandparents' farm...

you know how kids will imitate anything. I'd flap my arms and "crow" back at the rooster, who always returned the call and acted huffy. After a few days of this he'd come over and get right in my face - we were about the same height. We'd stand there crowing at each other 'till he got frustrated and walked off, scratching the ground like a bull.
Finally one day he decided to tackle me - jumped up flappping, spurs out, now his chest was at my eye level so i just reached out and pushed him backward. He landed ungraciously on his back, got up and repeated the attack. After four or five rounds of this he'd give up and strut off 'cluck cluck'ing angrily. We went through that many times each day, i thought it was tremendous fun. So did Grandpa. I assumed Mr Rooster did too, but i had overestimated his good nature.

Well, my Aunt and her daughter Barb came from out West to join us. That morning Grandma drove into town to pick them up at the Frisco train depot. My cousin Barb was maybe two, just walking good.
As they all piled out of the Ford that old rooster took one look at the toddler and said to himself "There's one i can whoop!"
The scene I remember is like one quick motion - a blur of rapidly moving rooster streaking toward the toddler and enveloping her in his wings , a shriek, and four adults in high speed converging on the mix of chicken and child.

Needless to say we had chicken and dumplings for dinner.

And I saw Barb last Christmas. She's in her fifties now with kids in college, still laughs about the "Attack Rooster" and seems to bear no scars from the event.

But I didn't antagonize any more roosters.



a.