"Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Everyone loves a healthy debate. Post an idea or comment about a current event or issue. Let others post their ideas also. This area is for those who love to explore other points of view.

Moderator: Nicole Marie

"Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:33 am

The so-called "Stimulus" bill is the most egregious legislation that I have ever seen and is quite possibly the most outrageous piece of legislation in the history of our country.

The boomers (and I’m one) are the whiniest bunch of people on the face of the earth and the first time we face a generational crisis we panic and decide our children’s children’s children will pay for our excesses. We have been living on credit since the 80’s. We have depended on the Japanese and Chinese to pay for our lifestyle and apparently still think they will continue to do so. If they don’t and there are signs they won’t, then who’s going to pay the bill? Altoid’s and Serenity’s children will.

Here’s a list (so far) of what’s in the bill and let’s see what’s missing.

• $83 billion in welfare payments (the earned income credit for people who don't pay income tax)
• $81 billion for Medicaid
• $66 billion on "education", more than the entire Department of Education required just ten years ago
• $36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits
• $20 billion for food stamps
• $8 billion on "renewable energy" projects, which have a low or negative return
• $7 billion for "modernizing federal buildings and facilities"
• $6 billion on urban transit systems, dominated by unions and which, almost universally, lose money
• $2.4 billion for "carbon-capture demonstration projects"
• $2 billion for child-care subsidies
• $1 billion for Amtrak, the federal railroad that's run in the red for 40 years
• $650 million for "digital TV conversion coupons" (on top of billions already spent)
• $600 million on new cars for government (added to the $3 billion already spent each year)
• $400 million for "global-warming research"
• $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts

Give up?

Not a penny for defense. In fact, Obama’s ordered the DoD to cut their budget by 11%. The part of his job that he swore an oath to and he’s cutting defense while America’s at war.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:56 am

Image
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby analog » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:16 pm

our children’s children’s children will pay for our excesses.


They'll look back at us as we do Adam and Eve: we ate that apple of debt, which act ended our time in the Garden of Eden.

Adam was but human--this explains it all. He did not want the apple for the apple's sake, he wanted it only because it was forbidden. The mistake was in not forbidding the serpent; then he would have eaten the serpent.
- Pudd'nhead Wilson
Cogito ergo doleo.
analog
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 12:01 am
Location: arkansas ozarks

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby barfle » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:49 am

I gotta remember that one!
--I know what I like--
barfle
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Springfield, Vahjinyah, USA

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:26 am

analog wrote: They'll look back at us as we do Adam and Eve


I don't recall that Adam saddled my sons with a $14,000 debt not including interest.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:41 am

Obama backs down on “Buy American.”

The bill has “buy America” clauses that had both Canada and the EU in turmoil.
This comment caught my eye:

Last night Mr Obama gave a strong signal that he would remove the most provocative passages from the Bill.


The president can remove passages from a bill?

The irony in all of this is that Obama’s now being forced to defend a bill that he had absolutely nothing to do with. The whole bill was crafted by Nancy Pelosi and a very small selct group of Democrat Represntatives. Even the Democrat chairmen were shut out of the bill.

Obama’s people diddn’t offer any suggestions nor were they consulted with before the bill was passed in the House. This is the mother of all "pigs in a poke"
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Shapley » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:51 am

Haggis@wk wrote:The bill has “buy America” clauses that had both Canada and the EU in turmoil.


Sorry? I thought Canada was America...
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:31 pm

Shapley wrote:
Haggis@wk wrote:The bill has “buy America” clauses that had both Canada and the EU in turmoil.


Sorry? I thought Canada was America...


Not in Democrat think, in that mode only Mexico is part of America :rofl:
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:43 pm

Support for Stimulus Package Falls to 37%

Support for the economic recovery plan working its way through Congress has fallen again this week. For the first time, a plurality of voters nationwide oppose the $800-billion-plus plan.


I spoke with both of my senators’ offices and they said Texans have come out against the bill by a margin of 10 – 1. That’s important when one of our Senators, Kay Bailey Hutchinson, has been a waffler in the past and tries to vote so as to not antagonize the Hispanic vote in Texas. I suspect that she will have to vote against it although in her heart I think she’s for it.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:44 am

RASMUSSEN: 50% Say Stimulus Plan Likely to Make Things Worse.

“Many Americans simply accept the notion that no matter how bad things are, Congress could make them worse. Most voters currently rate Congress’ performance as poor, and most expect that lobbyists will have more influence on the legislation than voters or the president. When reacting to the economic downturn, 46% of Americans remain more concerned that the government will do too much while 41% worry it will do too little.”


The good news is president Obama, unlike former president Bush, is joined at the hip with polls like these and while it’s unlikely he will decide to throw Pelosi’s bill to the wolves I think it is possible that he will start denouncing some of the more egregious pork.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Shapley » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:54 am

Haggis@wk wrote:The good news is president Obama, unlike former president Bush, is joined at the hip with polls like these and while it’s unlikely he will decide to throw Pelosi’s bill to the wolves I think it is possible that he will start denouncing some of the more egregious pork.


Thus far, the only thing he has denounced is those who oppose the bill. He has taken specific aim at Republicans who call for more tax relief to be included in the bill, claiming that history has already shown that tax cuts alone will not fix the problem. (The Republicans are not asking for tax cuts alone, but are asking for tax cuts in specific areas that will stimulate the economy. Such cuts have been shown to work to stimulate the economy, as both Republican and Democrat Presidents have seen the value of "targeted tax cuts", to use President Clinton's pet phrase.)

I do agree, however, that he will move with the polls. It is too early in his term to risk losing popular support in favour of pet projects, as his approval numbers are going to be key to giving him power against Congress. Pelosi et. al. don't seem to care that their own poll numbers are in the toilet (particularly since the Republicans' numbers are even lower). She intends to push ahead with her agenda, come Hell or high water (the very type of thing she chided President Bush for doing). The polls will only matter to her if the Republicans' approval starts to climb significantly.
Last edited by Shapley on Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:47 pm

The Congressional Budget Office says the stimulus bill will be harmful over the long term:

“President Obama’s economic recovery package will actually hurt the economy more in the long run than if he were to do nothing, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said Wednesday. CBO, the official scorekeepers for legislation, said the House and Senate bills will help in the short term but result in so much government debt that within a few years they would crowd out private investment, actually leading to a lower Gross Domestic Product over the next 10 years than if the government had done nothing.”


I don’t think there’s much long-term thinking going on in Congress or the White House, though . . .
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:38 pm

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:21 pm

STIMULUS: A history of folly.

If you are under 45 you will be paying this bill until you die; and you will never see a penny’s worth of benefit. Medicare and Social Security won’t be there for you, sorry, but hey, I’ll get mine!
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby BigJon@Work » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:28 am

Stop it! Ya old fart.
"I am a 12 foot lizard." GCR Jan 31, 2006
BigJon@Work
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 2252
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 12:01 am
Location: work. Duh!

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby piqaboo » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:56 pm

Fraggin stimulus plan. Sigh.
Dont tell OT, but I'm not too fond of unions these days either.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Shapley » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:17 am

Interestingly, then-Senator Obama's original propsal was for $175 billion in stimulus. Rather modest when compared to the final result. I assume he's willing to settle for $600 billion plus in pork as long as he gets his $175 billion stimulus thrown in. Knowing the way Congress works, however, it was probably the original $175 billion that got trimmed in order to get the $900 billion + 'trimmed down' to a measly $780 billion +...

He doesn't seem to give a d**n about the particulars of the bill, as long as he gets a bill. This does not bode well for the future, IMHO.
Last edited by Shapley on Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby jamiebk » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:34 am

Shapley wrote:This does not bode well for the future, IMHO.


Is there anything about this economic mess that Obama inherited that DOES bode well? The condition that we are in right now is totally FUBAR.
Jamie

"Leave it better than you found it"
jamiebk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 4284
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:01 am
Location: SF Bay Area - Wine Country

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Shapley » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:52 am

jamiebk wrote:
Shapley wrote:This does not bode well for the future, IMHO.


Is there anything about this economic mess that Obama inherited that DOES bode well? The condition that we are in right now is totally FUBAR.


Retail sales rose unexpectedly in January, and last week saw an unexpected drop in new jobless claims. Both signs that the worst may be over, even before the stimulus bill passed.

You say he 'inherited' this mess, but you neglect the fact that he was on the check-book writing side of it since 2005. He helped create the mess, he didn't 'inherit' it. He was, in fact, one of those who fought against increased oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the first bit of excrement that hit the fan.

Spending for the sake of spending seems frivolous. We are told that we are in this mess because people were living beyond our means, spending money we didn't have, buying homes we couldn't afford. Now, we are told, the answer to our problem is for the government to live beyond our means, helping us to afford those homes we couldn't afford. Does this not strike you as wrong?

My point on the stimulus package is that President Obama does not seek to contain the stimulus bill to anything resembling the original requested amounts. He railed against earmarks on the campaign trail, but he has not raised an objection to any of the earmarks in this bill. The Democrats railed because President Bush did not curtail the pork in his budgets, and here they are busting the budget with more pork than Bob Evans ever dreamed of. He seems to be following exactly along the path that President Bush was faulted for treading. Somehow, that is now seen as leadership.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: "Our Children Will Hate Us" Act

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:37 pm

Yada, yada Cheap promises CHANGE.GOV PROMISES:

End the Practice of Writing Legislation Behind Closed Doors: As president, Barack Obama will restore the American people’s trust in their government by making government more open and transparent. Obama will work to reform congressional rules to require all legislative sessions, including committee mark-ups and conference committees, to be conducted in public. By making these practices public, the American people will be able to hold their leaders accountable for wasteful spending and lawmakers won’t be able to slip favors for lobbyists into bills at the last minute.


Instead we got a bill that the lobbyists got before the Congressmen, which will pass without being read.

Hopenchange™
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Next

Return to The Debate Team

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron