Is George Bush the right leader for America?

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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Shapley » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:17 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:Unfortunately, politicians like Barbara Boxer believe that everything is negotiable. Since she and those like her (apparently) have no core beliefs that they aren't willing to negotiate away, they (apparently) erroneously believe the hospitals and staff likewise are going to negotiate and therefore assume the Catholics threat to close and shutter those hospitals is merely an opening ploy in negotiations, not what it actually is, a statement of fact.


Wasn't it Nancy Pelosi who claimed that the issue of abortion is not 'settled' within the Catholic Church? To the best of my knowledge, she has not recanted her view of this, even though she was sent several copies of Cathechism for Dummies by various Catholic groups.

As you said, those with no core values are at a loss to understand those who have them...
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:10 pm

Shapley wrote: Wasn't it Nancy Pelosi who claimed that the issue of abortion is not 'settled' within the Catholic Church?


I think she falls into that category of people who have abjured de facto if not de jure
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:11 pm

Hmmph. Catholic dogma may be settled - not to mention petrified - but the beliefs of the individual Americans in the pews do not always agree with the opinions of the old, single, childless men who make the rules for other people's families. I'm remembering some flaps over various practices that are widely accepted in other denominations.
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:21 pm

Selma in Sandy Eggo wrote:Hmmph. Catholic dogma may be settled - not to mention petrified - but the beliefs of the individual Americans in the pews do not always agree with the opinions of the old, single, childless men who make the rules for other people's families. I'm remembering some flaps over various practices that are widely accepted in other denominations.



Do you think that dissension will keep the hospitals open if FOCA passes?
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:28 pm

While reading "MIstakes Were Made (but not by me)" by Tavris and Aronson, a book about cognitive dissonance, I saw this:

...the poster boy for "tenacious clinging to a discredited belief' was George W. Bush. Bush was wrong in his claim that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, he was wrong in claiming Saddam was linked with Al Qaeda, he was wrong in predicting that Iraqis would be dancing joyfully in the streets to receive the American soldiers, he was wrong in predicting that the conflict would be over quickly, he was wrong in his gross underestimate of the financial cost of the war, and he was most famously wrong in his photo-op speech six week after the invasion began, when he announced (under a banner reading MISSION ACCOMPLISHED) that "major combat operations have ended."....Accordingly, when he was proved wrong in his original reasons for the war, he found new ones: getting rid of a "very bad guy," fighting terrorists, promoting peace in the MIddle East, bringing democracy to Iraq, increasing the security of the United States, and finishing "the task (our troops) gave their lives for." In other words, we must continue the war because we began the war.


How can anyone stomach this liberal smear job? Half truths, lies, and trivial complaints. Its a known fact that Iraqis were happy when liberated, because they could satisfy their thirst to read great Americans like Thomas Jefferson, Robert W. Welch, L. Ron Hubbard, and Roger Bacon.
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:59 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:Do you think that dissension will keep the hospitals open if FOCA passes?

No, not really. The ossified elders will make their moral proclamations and close down Sisters of Mercy. I'm not entirely sure that the Sisters might not pick up their clinic equipment, smuggle it out the back door, and set up in a storefront down the block. We have more than one moral imperative at work here.
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Shapley » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:03 pm

Selma in Sandy Eggo wrote:...the beliefs of the individual Americans in the pews do not always agree with the opinions of the old, single, childless men who make the rules for other people's families.


True, but the Church has never been a Democracy. On top of which, those single, childless men do speak for the great single-father in the sky...
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby barfle » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:42 am

Shapley wrote:those single, childless men do speak for the great single-father in the sky...

At least that's what they claim.
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:37 am

barfle wrote:
Shapley wrote:those single, childless men do speak for the great single-father in the sky...

At least that's what they claim.

With remarkably little basis, other than their own infallible proclamations. I'm inveterately suspicious of authorities whose base argument is "because I said so".
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:44 pm

That's why it's called "faith"
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:03 pm

St. Paul wrote:Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I've never been comfortable with the notion that "faith" should also account for people denying what they can see. I figure that as part of the body/soul package, God gave us eyeballs and a brain: we should use them.

With that as my starting point, I think that self-proclaimed authorities who seek to control my behavior by demanding that I "have faith" and disregard the evidence of my own eyes are plainly in opposition to the self-evident will of God. Any claims they make as to the virtue or sinfulness of my behavior are only as valid as my own conscience, and their golden priestly authority has clay feet.
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby piqaboo » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:39 pm

Once upon a time, there was a planned parenthood poster that showed a picture of a pregnant man in a business suit. It read "If men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament".

Now, that's stating it a bit strongly, but I do think that conception prevention might be.

My issue with the conscience law is that its stealthy. My Dr, out of conscience, doesnt have to tell me that there are procedures available to me that might be better choices than those my Dr is willing to discuss. Its tough for a patient to know what she doesnt know she doesnt know. We rely on our Drs to educate us on the possibilities and to make a recommendation.
A mother of 4, who's pregnant and diagnosed with cancer, might want to know that abortion is an option. Not a happy one, but who has the greater claim on her? Her living 4 children, or her unborn 5th? I dont have an answer to that, but if I were in that position, I'd want to know my options - that I could begin chemo sooner, have that operation, or whatever.
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:55 pm

Maybe the whole "Freedom of Choice" problem goes away if you change the playing field. Consider what might change if the various right-to-life groups operating hospitals simply declared the work a charity. The government's hook only attaches if the hospital is a business.

Just a point to think about.
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Shapley » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:50 pm

Court Upholds President's Authority To Conduct Warrantless Wiretaps

I've pointed out previously that this has already been established but this ruling also compels telecommunications companies to provide records.

Just one of many vindications of President Bush that will come to light in the future.

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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Shapley » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:30 am

Quod scripsi, scripsi.
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:48 pm



Too bad. The smirking doufus' true talents will go to waste.
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby analog » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:26 pm

even my socialist stepson admits the left started the little fire that became the meltdown.
he still blames Bush though, for not undoing Bill & Nancy's mischief ...

from one of the links in that bbc article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7814704.stm
.........In the blame game for this financial crisis, George W Bush comes a close second to greedy and unscrupulous Wall Street bankers.

But there are serious flaws in this argument.

Deregulation started long before President Bush came to power, and it was enthusiastically pursued by both Democratic and Republican administrations.

Here is just one example:

The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 separated the activities of commercial banks, which take deposits, from investment banks, which invest money. It was repealed in 1999.

That relaxation of the rules enabled commercial lenders, like Citigroup, to trade instruments such as mortgage-backed securities and collateralised debt obligations.

'Far-reaching reform'

Many see the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act as a major, direct cause of the current financial crisis.

But it was signed by a Democratic President, Bill Clinton, and supported by many other Democratic politicians, among them the scourge of Bush deregulation Nancy Pelosi.

What is more, President Bush actually increased the burden of regulation on US companies, enacting in 2002 what he called "the most far-reaching reform of American business practices since the time of Franklin D Roosevelt", the Sarbanes-Oxley Act.

A response to a number of major corporate and accounting scandals, including the collapse of the energy group Enron, Sarbanes-Oxley significantly increased the reporting requirements and accountability of company boards and management.


As president, he bears the ultimate political responsibility and his party has paid the ultimate political price

So the image of Mr Bush as the arch deregulator and the Democratic Party as the champion of stricter rules for business does not quite tally with the evidence.


sorta reminds me of 'High Noon'.
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby shostakovich » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:17 pm



Bush maintains his unblemished record of never finding a job he's suited for.
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Shapley » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:29 pm

President Obama continues to talk about the situation he 'inherited'. But the question I have to ask is: Who did he inherit it from? He talks about 'eight years of fiscal mismanagement, but the Bush had a Republican Congress for only six of those years. The last year that the Republicans held the Congress, the deficit was on its' way down. The first year the Democrats held Congress, the deficit rebounded.

Now, granted, that's not entirely fair, given that the first year of a new Congress is operated under the budget of the previous one, so FY 2007, which saw an increase in the deficit, was a Republican year, for the most part. That year ended in October, 2007. Interestingly, the early part of that month marked the peak of the Dow Jones Industrial Average, at 14,164.53. Immediately after, as the government began to operate under the restraint of budget passed by a Democrat Congress, the Dow began its' steady slide to where we find it today, at little more than half the value it was at the end of the Republican's budgeting. The deficit, which the Democrats rode to power deriding as 'too high', set a new record under the Democrat Congress' fiscal watch. The second year of the Democrats' fiscal discipline has seen the deficit exceed one trillion dollars. Granted, we had a Republican President, but he can't spend a penny without the Congress' approval, and the Democrats gave it willingly.

I know that the Democrat Congress and the President will continue to claim to have 'inherited' the situation from the Republicans and from President Bush, but they are lying. Eventually, they will have to answer for the mess they've created.

BTW, have you noticed that the Democrats seem not to be concerned at all that the worldwide markets do not seem to approve of the nations' 'necessary' march toward Socialism? Everytime President Obama, Mr. Geithner, or the Congress hints at 'nationalization', the market tanks, but the they all seem oblivious to this.

But, have no fear. The Democrats are on the job, and they will focus on the economy with the same scrutiny they apply to their own tax returns...
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Re: Is George Bush the right leader for America?

Postby Shapley » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:24 pm

Former President Bush: "President Obama Deserves My Silence."

Observing a presidential tradition, Former President Bush has declined to criticize his successor. He continues to show he has more class than the current occupant.
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