Veterans Day

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Re: Veterans Day

Postby barfle » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:28 pm

My own experience, and one mentioned in Victory at Sea (a series on DVD I just finished), is that there's a heck of a lot of waiting around when you're in the military. "They also serve who only sit and wait" was something my dad knew, and so did I.

And then there are the incidents where your sphincters all let go at once, and you don't realize it until the next day.
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby piqaboo » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:58 pm

dai,
I dont know that anyone in my family made it out your way during the wars.
My mom grew up in a small British village (<400 people) & has clear memories of the US soldiers going thru, watching and cheering them, and them handing out sweets. It turned out when I was in Miami, that a co-worker's dad was one of the US soldiers stationed near there. Very probably, he threw my mom a chocolate bar at some point. They found out the connection at a party, when my mom and his dad were visiting us from their various distant homes (California and NYC). The world can get small.
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:19 pm

On CNN's Political Tracker:

WASHINGTON (CNN) - Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki confirmed Tuesday that the Obama administration is considering a controversial plan to make veterans pay for treatment of service-related injuries with private insurance, but was told by lawmakers that it would be "dead on arrival" if sent to Congress...


But it's still under consideration after several lawmakers tried to get ahead of the change:

...No official proposal to create such a program has been announced publicly, but veterans groups wrote a pre-emptive letter last week to President Obama opposing the idea after hearing the plan was under consideration. The groups also noticed an increase in “third-party collections” estimated in the 2010 budget proposal—something they said could only be achieved if the VA started billing for service-related injuries.

Asked about the proposal, Shinseki said it was under "consideration."
"A final decision hasn't been made yet," he said...


Almost every newly elected president's administraton does something equally stupid and tone deaf. I assume this is Obama's.
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby piqaboo » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:42 pm

Dear God. That's an appalling thought, to charge for treatment of service-related conditions.

I could understand, if not approve of, charges for regular health care (ex, a neighbor Army Vet who had a triple bypass and two hip replacements some 50 years after his service). But to charge for service-incurred problems? Disgraceful.
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:25 pm

piqaboo wrote:Dear God. That's an appalling thought, to charge for treatment of service-related conditions.

I could understand, if not approve of, charges for regular health care (ex, a neighbor Army Vet who had a triple bypass and two hip replacements some 50 years after his service). But to charge for service-incurred problems? Disgraceful.


Not all vets are eligible for VA care. I'm not, but since I'm retired I'm eligible for TriCare. When I was covered by company health insurance I couldn't use TriCare but now that I no longer have that insurance I can use it.

It is an apalling idea. It's like someone sat down and said "what is the one thing we could do that would unite both parties in Congress?"

I know, let's give tens of billions of $$ to AIG, GM, and Citibank but stiff wounded G.I.s!! I can't imagine any politician in Congress so tone deaf as to support this if it ever makes it into a proposal.
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby jamiebk » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:47 pm

Seems like everyone has criticized a lot of the care that GI's have gotten through the VA...and rightfully so. I wonder if the government could privitize this and let private insurance plans cover these things. The government could pay the premiums to the plans and let private enterprise take over. If private enterpirse is as efficient as everyone says, this might actually improve care and decrease cost. (And please note that I am NOT advocating charging the GI's for their care here).
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:30 pm

jamiebk wrote:Seems like everyone has criticized a lot of the care that GI's have gotten through the VA...and rightfully so. I wonder if the government could privitize this and let private insurance plans cover these things. The government could pay the premiums to the plans and let private enterprise take over. If private enterpirse is as efficient as everyone says, this might actually improve care and decrease cost. (And please note that I am NOT advocating charging the GI's for their care here).


I very much agree with what you say. The VA is an example of how nationalized health care works and it is horrible.

Quite frankly, if you had separate insurance why would you even consider going to the VA?

My friend, a retired USAF E-8, is a lab tech/something at the local VA in Dallas. He's eligble for free VA care but he uses his wife's insurance to get care elswhere!! That says a lot for the VA service.
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:32 pm

Apparently, the Obama administration hasn’t backed away from its plans to start offloading costs for wounded veterans to third-party insurance, which will make acquiring such insurance nearly impossible. The commander of the American Legion emerged from a meeting with Obama “angered” at Obama’s insistence on generating revenue from those who sacrificed for American security:

The leader of the nation’s largest veterans organization says he is “deeply disappointed and concerned” after a meeting with President Obama today to discuss a proposal to force private insurance companies to pay for the treatment of military veterans who have suffered service-connected disabilities and injuries. The Obama administration recently revealed a plan to require private insurance carriers to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) in such cases.

“It became apparent during our discussion today that the President intends to move forward with this unreasonable plan,” said Commander David K. Rehbein of The American Legion. “He says he is looking to generate $540-million by this method, but refused to hear arguments about the moral and government-avowed obligations that would be compromised by it.”

The Commander, clearly angered as he emerged from the session said, “This reimbursement plan would be inconsistent with the mandate ‘ to care for him who shall have borne the battle’ given that the United States government sent members of the armed forces into harm’s way, and not private insurance companies. I say again that The American Legion does not and will not support any plan that seeks to bill a veteran for treatment of a service connected disability at the very agency that was created to treat the unique need of America’s veterans!”

Commander Rehbein was among a group of senior officials from veterans service organizations joining the President, White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel, Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric Shinseki and Steven Kosiak, the overseer of defense spending at the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). The group’s early afternoon conversation at The White House was precipitated by a letter of protest presented to the President earlier this month. The letter, co-signed by Commander Rehbein and the heads of ten colleague organizations, read, in part, ” There is simply no logical explanation for billing a veteran’s personal insurance for care that the VA has a responsibility to provide. While we understand the fiscal difficulties this country faces right now, placing the burden of those fiscal problems on the men and women who have already sacrificed a great deal for this country is unconscionable.”


The United States has a moral obligation to provide treatment for those wounded in the service of their country. That’s a commitment we make to the people who enlist in military, and should not get outsourced.

As we have learned, all of Barack Obama’s pledges come with expiration dates — all of them. Wounded veterans have now discovered this in a most unpleasant way. Barack Obama wants to shove off the cost of medical care for injuries and illnesses sustained in combat in order to find $560 million in fresh revenue streams.

This amounts to just over half of what Obama just gave Hamas in Gaza to rebuild after their disastrous war with Israel this winter, and about 1/300th of what the government gave AIG in a bailout.

During the campaign, in June 2008, Obama appeared at a Sioux Falls pancake breakfast to lambaste the Bush administration and John McCain for opposing Jim Webb’s GI Bill. During that speech, given from a rostrum with the slogan “A Sacred Trust — Support Our Veterans”, Obama had this to say about caring for our wounded once back at home:

We all know that the sacred trust does not end when the uniform comes off. That’s why it’s time to build a 21st-century VA. No more red tape. It’s time to give every service member electronic copies of their medical records and service records upon discharge so that they can immediately get the services that they’ve earned. No more shortfalls. We’ll fully fund VA health care. No more delays. We’ll pass on-time budgets. No more means testing. It’s time to allow every veteran into the VA system.


It’s just another expiration date, as American Legion Commander discovered.

“Sacred trust”? Words. Just words.
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:58 pm

Give Barack Obama his due. He said he wanted to bring unity and bipartisanship to Washington DC … and he succeeded beyond his wild dreams with his distasteful scheme to charge wounded vets for their service-related injuries. After taking fire from all sides, the Obama administration finally hit full retreat:

The White House on Wednesday backed off a controversial plan that would have dramatically altered the way the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) handles insurance claims, after veterans groups staged an all-out fight against such a proposal.

President Obama will not pursue a proposal that would have allowed the VA to charge private insurance companies for the treatment of veterans with service- and war-related injuries. The proposal raised the ire of prominent Democrats on the House and Senate Veterans Affairs panels. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) was the first to publicly announce Wednesday afternoon that the president won’t pursue such proposal.

For a second time in a week, representatives from prominent veterans’ organization went to the White House on Wednesday to meet with the White House chief-of-staff on VA budget issues. On Monday, they met with the president, but that meeting led to a public outcry over what veterans perceived as a move by the president to still consider the proposal despite opposition.


I guess no one at the White House could answer Jon Stewart’s question of “What the %^&* were you guys thinking?” The correct answer was, “We weren’t.”

So yes, they’ve pulled the proposal, but it took two meetings at the White House with veterans groups to get the point to sink in. Either this administration has a problem with its intelligence or with its soul.
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:12 am

Haggis@wk wrote: ... Either this administration has a problem with its intelligence or with its soul.

Yup. I can't believe any politician would have considered the stupid plan.

I emailed Hunter, Feinstein, Boxer, and Pelosi. :rant: :deal: I would suspect that I was one of many, many, many voters to do so. (Pelosi's not from my district but she's not hard to email so I added her to the list. She is, at least, from my state.) The entire idea was immoral, unethical, thoroughly stupid, and utterly wrong.
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby Shapley » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:48 am

Japanese Man Certified As Survivor Of Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki Bomb Blasts

Talk about a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time! My hat is off to him.
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:19 pm

Airman missing from Vietnam War is identified

WASHINGTON (AFRNS) -- The remains of a U.S. Airman, missing in action from the Vietnam War, have been identified and will be buried with full military honors, said officials from the Department of Defense POW/Missing Personnel Office.

Lt. Col. Earl P. Hopper Jr., from Phoenix, will be buried today at the National Memorial Cemetery of Arizona in Phoenix.

On Jan. 10, 1968, Colonel Hopper and Capt. Keith Hall were flying an F-4D Phantom near Hanoi, North Vietnam, as part of a four-ship MiG combat air patrol. Before they reached the target, an enemy surface-to-air missile exploded slightly below their aircraft. Captain Hall radioed that he and Colonel Hopper were ejecting. He told Colonel Hopper to eject, but when he heard no response, he repeated "Earl get out!" Colonel Hopper replied, "I've pulled on it and it [the ejection seat] did not go," followed by "you go!" Captain Hall then pulled on his primary ejection handle but it failed to initiate, forcing him to use the alternate. Captain Hall was captured and held as a prisoner of war until 1973, but Colonel Hopper was unable to get out of the aircraft.

Between 1993 and 1998, officials from the Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command conducted three joint investigations and five excavations at the crash site in Son La Province, west of Hanoi. The team interviewed four informants who had knowledge of the site. The excavations recovered numerous skeletal fragments and crew-related items which were ultimately used in the forensic identification process.

Among other forensic tools and circumstantial evidence, scientists used extensive dental comparisons in the identification of the remains.

For additional information on the Defense Department's mission to account for missing Americans, visit the DPMO Web site at www.dtic.mil/dpmo or call (703) 699-1169/1420. (Courtesy of DOD)
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby Shapley » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:10 am

Napolitano Apologizes To Veterans For Remarks Regarding 'Extremism'

It appears the DHS is doing some profiling of 'extremists', and being a veteran is among the potential warning signs, as is being a Ron Paul supporter or NRA member. Her apology was a bit weak, IMHO.
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby piqaboo » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:21 pm

Does this mean you, h and ot are extremists? Oh what fun!
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby Shapley » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:32 pm

piqaboo wrote:Does this mean you, h and ot are extremists? Oh what fun!


I think I've been branded 'extremist' ever since my "Youth for Nixon" days. I'm sure the FBI has a pretty thick file on me...
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:46 pm

Shapley wrote:... I've been branded 'extremist' ever since my "Youth for Nixon" days. I'm sure the FBI has a pretty thick file on me...

Hmmm. I handed out "Kennedy/Johnson" buttons downtown. Was properly clad, wearing pedal pushers and sneakers.

We all have a fed file - if only of interest to the Revenooers. And I'm informed that if I suicide, the FBI has to investigate. Like a dead silly servant would care? :roll:
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby barfle » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:10 pm

Shapley wrote:Napolitano Apologizes To Veterans For Remarks Regarding 'Extremism'

It appears the DHS is doing some profiling of 'extremists', and being a veteran is among the potential warning signs, as is being a Ron Paul supporter or NRA member. Her apology was a bit weak, IMHO.

I heard a bit of that on the radio yesterday. As a member of a handful of fringe groups (not to mention a gummint employee), I have little doubt that I'm causing some bureaucrat a bit of concern.

And I see that it is good.

I wonder if being an involuntary veteran counts?
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:09 pm

Dang! I was a "Young Conservative for Goldwater." I wonder what that means??? Hmmmm, that might explain those black helicopters that have been following me. :rofl:
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby jamiebk » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:12 pm

Back in my early high school days, our whole scout troop went to the Goldwater headquaters and addressed mailers and sent out flyers etc. as well as campaigned for the guy. Hell, what I knew about politics at the time would have filled a thimble (haven't got much better over time). We had a blast...and they actualy pulled some dough out of petty cash to treat us all to hot dog lunches at the favorite local grill/dive in town. In any event, imagine the uproar today if a whole scout troop was forced into conscription to work for a party/candidate. How things have changed
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Re: Veterans Day

Postby piqaboo » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:08 am

barfle, no doubt at all that you are an extremist. :)
Dont want you to feel left out.

"Forced"? I bet your troop leader expressed it as an opportunity to earn a merit badge, and it was more voluntary than you remember.
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