Military Motivators

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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon May 18, 2009 10:09 am

Serenity wrote: because we are too weak or cowardly to fight for ourselves. That's condescending and with an air of superiority. They fight for themselves and for their beliefs and values, not mine. Fighting is stupid. Fighting is a waste of time and money. Fighting is for those who dismiss the opponent as inferior and unworthy of dialogue and negotiation.


So, You don’t consider America’s military as being part of us?

We are at that point in the thread where Serenity, completely outclassed and out-argued, decides to 1. declare her opponents as being bigots and incapable of understanding her high moral position, 2. go silent, or 3. insult and then goes silent.

We're at 1.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon May 18, 2009 10:18 am

Serenity wrote: Fighting is stupid. Fighting is a waste of time and money.

You are quite correct. Destructive behavior, inherently wasteful. And continual fighting inevitably destroys the prize being fought over.

It is usually a last resort, among those who'd rather be reasonable. There are, sadly, times when your choice is to accept abuse or to resist it.
Serenity wrote: Fighting is for those who dismiss the opponent as inferior and unworthy of dialogue and negotiation.

Or for the opponent who declines to be inferior, and unworthy, and robbed.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Shapley » Mon May 18, 2009 10:44 am

Serenity wrote:
Haggis@wk wrote:I didn't ask these "rough"men to fight for me.....you mean our teenage kids?. They do violence because they want to with the excuse that is on our behalf, because we are too weak or cowardly to fight for ourselves. That's condescending and with an air of superiority. They fight for themselves and for their beliefs and values, not mine. Fighting is stupid. Fighting is a waste of time and money. Fighting is for those who dismiss the opponent as inferior and unworthy of dialogue and negotiation.


Peace is often attained, no through force, but through the display of a willingness to use it. Only a fool attacks when he cannot be sure of victory. War is the absence of peace, but peace can be attained by a willingness to go to war. The truth of this was known long before Jesus walked the Earth.

Contrary to popular belief, our military is not comprised of "our teenage kids". It is a popular myth that the average age of our soldiers in Vietnam was nineteen. Nineteen was the average age of draftees. That is to say, the age at which they entered the service.

Fighting is not always a waste of time and resources. Fighting is sometimes necessary if we are to remain free. As you may recall from the 60s, there were two trains of thought: Those who thought it to be 'Better Dead than Red" and those who thought it to be "Better Red than Dead". That is to say, those who would resist the bonds of slavery and those who would submit to them.

There are things worth dying for. Jesus himself said, there is no greater love than to lay down ones' life for a friend.

V/R
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby BigJon@Work » Mon May 18, 2009 1:04 pm

Don't forget about the madmen
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Shapley » Mon May 18, 2009 1:51 pm

BigJon@Work wrote:Don't forget about the madmen


True. I said "Only a fool attacks when he cannot be sure of victory". I should have added that history is full of stories of fools who did.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Serenity » Mon May 18, 2009 8:34 pm

What the hell? You don't want to understand this anyway......Why should I waste this on an unreceptive mind?
Last edited by Serenity on Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Shapley » Mon May 18, 2009 8:48 pm

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Serenity » Mon May 18, 2009 9:51 pm

:arrow:
Last edited by Serenity on Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Serenity » Mon May 18, 2009 9:54 pm

:arrow:
Last edited by Serenity on Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Tue May 19, 2009 8:28 am

Serenity wrote:You know you just can say "F....You" to your "Plow Master"...he can kill you and plow his own crap.

There is that. Conscientious objectors, of the real and honest variety, may be the bravest people there are. The will to stand and tolerate abuse rather than to defend oneself is something I could not find, and I'd fold up my morals and defend my kids at the hint of a threat.

You won't find many infantry dudes willing to insult the Quaker guy with the red cross armband and the stretcher, though. Pacifist, yes; wimps, no.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Shapley » Tue May 19, 2009 8:40 am

Serenity wrote:You know you just can say "F....You" to your "Plow Master"...he can kill you and plow his own crap.


Yeah, that'll teach 'em. :roll:

Of course, he'll probably just turn his sword toward my family members and tell them they have to do my share of the plowing...
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue May 19, 2009 10:27 am

Serenity wrote:
There stands Haggis with his fists on his hips with the flag flapping in the background and the top representatives of the three branches of the military standing boldly and slightly behind him, all wearing sunglasses.

No, I don't consider your view of the military as being part of me. You are totally above and beyond me; you know way more than I could possibly want to know about the military. And, because of my ignorance on battle, struggle, war and military history, I could never win an argument against you. How could someone without understanding claim higher moral position...... unless you yourself post that doubt? All I can do is get mad, vociferate and walk away until I get a handle on my irrational emotions. I'm sorry I bird-pooped on your pet "Military Motivators" thread with posts on conscientious objection, pacifism and quotes from a Nobel Peace Prize Laureate. My posts are merely a gut reaction against the insult I feel against your militaristic propaganda.

I have apparently touched a nerve....good! Mission accomplished!


haggis@wk wrote: We're at 1.


Again. look up "Ad hominem"

You've proved my post. Without any argument other than "and walk away until I get a handle on my irrational emotions." you, once again, retreat to insults and personal attacks. A fairly common and predictable response. I presume goes silent is next?
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby analog » Tue May 19, 2009 10:32 am

A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
Bible

When white corpuscles go pacifist the organism dies. Also when they run amuck.

it's a question of balance
moody blues

a.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Shapley » Tue May 19, 2009 10:38 am

analog wrote:
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
Bible


And here I thought that was Bob Dylan, or Peter, Paul, & Mary...

Who'da thougth the Bible would be quoting Bob Dylan... :D
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby analog » Tue May 19, 2009 10:55 am

Shapley wrote: .

Who'da thougth the Bible would be quoting Bob Dylan... :D



Perry Como has a better voice and can hit the notes.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Tue May 19, 2009 11:01 am

Ecclesiastes is a lot better once Bob Dylan, and PP&M get done with it. Has a tune, etc. The Elizabethan poet translator guys did their best with that old preacher, in the KingJ version, but they didn't think to include a tune. :grin:
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Shapley » Tue May 19, 2009 11:06 am

analog wrote:Perry Como has a better voice and can hit the notes.


Mr. Como wasn't as effective a shot as Mr. Dylan. Perry may have been able to hit them, but they walked away unscathed. When Bob hit them, it was a confirmed 'kill'.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby BigJon@Work » Tue May 19, 2009 11:37 am

her high moral position
Hah!
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby dai bread » Tue May 19, 2009 7:17 pm

Shapley wrote:
analog wrote:Perry Como has a better voice and can hit the notes.


Mr. Como wasn't as effective a shot as Mr. Dylan. Perry may have been able to hit them, but they walked away unscathed. When Bob hit them, it was a confirmed 'kill'.


"Kill" is right. I like his songs, but I can't stand his "singing".
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Shapley » Tue May 19, 2009 8:35 pm

dai bread wrote:"Kill" is right. I like his songs, but I can't stand his "singing".


I pick on Bob Dylan here on the board, but I actually like his music, both the writing and some of the singing. I'll admit he's not a great singer, or even a good singer, but there are some songs that I simply can't imagine anyone else singing. Many of his songs are about his own life experience. How can anyone else sing those with the proper understanding?
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