Military Motivators

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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Serenity » Tue May 19, 2009 10:09 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:
Serenity wrote:
There stands Haggis with his fists on his hips with the flag flapping in the background and the top representatives of the three branches of the military standing boldly and slightly behind him, all wearing sunglasses.

No, I don't consider your view of the military as being part of me. You are totally above and beyond me; you know way more than I could possibly want to know about the military. And, because of my ignorance on battle, struggle, war and military history, I could never win an argument against you. How could someone without understanding claim higher moral position...... unless you yourself post that doubt? All I can do is get mad, vociferate and walk away until I get a handle on my irrational emotions. I'm sorry I bird-pooped on your pet "Military Motivators" thread with posts on conscientious objection, pacifism and quotes from a Nobel Peace Prize Laureate. My posts are merely a gut reaction against the insult I feel against your militaristic propaganda.

I have apparently touched a nerve....good! Mission accomplished!


haggis@wk wrote: We're at 1.


Again. look up "Ad hominem"

1. A fallacious objection to an argument or factual claim by appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim; an attempt to argue against an opponent's idea by discrediting the opponent himself.
2. A personal attack.


You've proved my post. Without any argument other than "and walk away until I get a handle on my irrational emotions." you, once again, retreat to insults and personal attacks. A fairly common and predictable response. I presume goes silent is next?


"Dramatic Irony" A theatrical effect in which the meaning of a situation, or some incongruity in the plot, is understood by the audience, but not by the characters in the play.

When someone has the power to use force, they tend to use it. The more they use force, the less they use peaceful means to advance their cause. It's like an addiction, it creeps up on you. At first, you think you are in control but gradually, you lose yourself in the impulse and habit. If you are successful in the use of force, it feeds your ego until you become arrogant and less compromising toward the needs and wants of others.

That tendency to quickly dismiss other views and negate any opinion opposing your own, I consider arrogant because you dismiss any approach that does not use force or is not pro-military.

I do not oppose the military, I believe in self-defense. I merely dislike the chest-pounding, the bragging and the self-glorification. But, no matter, whatever I post will be opposed and dismissed and reviled and scrutinized and equated to personal flaws. My "arguments" and opinions are invalid. They are a source of ridicule..............
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Shapley » Wed May 20, 2009 8:18 am

Serenity wrote:[When someone has the power to use force, they tend to use it. The more they use force, the less they use peaceful means to advance their cause. It's like an addiction, it creeps up on you. At first, you think you are in control but gradually, you lose yourself in the impulse and habit. If you are successful in the use of force, it feeds your ego until you become arrogant and less compromising toward the needs and wants of others.


Is this spoken from experience? My experience is quite different. I was in the Navy for six years, and we never attacked anyone. We 'rattled our sabres' one time of note, otherwise we steamed around providing the ready presence that is a necessary component of peacekeeping.

You must live in fear of policemen. They are armed, and trained in the use of those arms, and they walk the sidewalks and drive the streets every day. By your statement, every one of them is a potential time bomb, ready to employ force at any time, just because they can.

I am glad I have more faith in human nature.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby piqaboo » Wed May 20, 2009 10:56 am

In San Diego, I rather do, at least if I'm in a car. Our cops as individuals have been great people (those I've met) but the force has demonstrated a distressing tendency for a lack of common sense, and a willingness to over-react. I suspect that is in part driven by being soloists. I suspect cops with partners overreact less often, because they dont feel quite so vulnerable. Plus, a buddy helps deflate any incidental god complex that might spring briefly to life.
Now I'm up the creek sans paddle, should I ever need police assistance.
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Shapley » Wed May 20, 2009 11:11 am

My observation is that the 'god complex', when it exists, usually manifest itself in the rookie stage and goes away as the policemen settles into the job. This is often known as 'playing John Wayne', and is usually common with those who are not accustomed to being in authority. One usually matures out of it, or one usually gets the crap beat of them if one doesn't. This would run contrary to Serenity's statement.

I'm sure my representative sample is rather small, of course.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed May 20, 2009 2:08 pm

Image

Yup
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Serenity » Wed May 20, 2009 8:48 pm

:P
Last edited by Serenity on Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Serenity » Wed May 20, 2009 9:39 pm

:arrow:
Last edited by Serenity on Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Serenity » Wed May 20, 2009 9:41 pm

:arrow:
Last edited by Serenity on Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Shapley » Wed May 20, 2009 10:00 pm

There are about 700,000 municipal, county, and state police officers in the United States, plus another 120,000 in the employ of the Federal government. Ten cases in five months is a pretty insignificant figure.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Serenity » Wed May 20, 2009 11:24 pm

Here's some advice on how not to be targeted:
(Warning: Adult Language)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXE ... re=related
Last edited by Serenity on Thu May 21, 2009 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby analog » Wed May 20, 2009 11:39 pm

Mankind lies someplace between the low angels and the high primates.

We still have a lot of the behaviors you see in nature shows - males strive for dominance, bellow, clash horns... anybody who works in a big organization can see it every day at the morning meeting, if they'll adopt position of casual observer..

google 'naked ape'.
I always wondered if that's what inspired Simon and Garfunkel's "At The Zoo".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtlUuQw986Q

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Cogito ergo doleo.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Serenity » Thu May 21, 2009 5:08 am

:arrow:
Last edited by Serenity on Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Shapley » Thu May 21, 2009 8:03 am

Serenity wrote:Yeah, I'm glad that's a low number but that was one website....from one search engine....for the current year.....of sentences for things that happened long ago. There were several pages on Google I did not explore but there were links to current investigations from several cities and links to attorney blogs with links to newspaper articles documenting and following up on investigations. These were not cops in their "rookie phase", a lot of these are experienced officers with several years on the force who learned to "cheat the system".


My point is simply that there will be a percentage of people in any walk of life that will bend or break the rules to their advantage, whether out of a thrist for power or a simple desire to enrich themselves at others' expense. Given the large number of police officers compared to the number of reported abuses, I would say they are no different than the rest of us, despite often being the only armed presence amongst large numbers of unarmed citizens.

In addition they, like the military, are in a situation in which they are frequently forced to face the type of situations most of us are fortunate enough to avoid most, if not all, of our lives. Their willingness to face these situations is the principle reason so many of us don't have to face them ourselves.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Serenity » Thu May 21, 2009 9:29 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN3S-hBsdko

"Forget To Remember"

What have I done?
Where have I come from?
When I burnt the backs with the sun through a glass did I seal the loss that's become me?

Feeling undone
What have I become?
When I turned my back on you I turned my back on myself and became this machine

Thoughtlessness
Selfishness
Hopelessness
Arrogant

I feel it on the inside
Twisting and contorting
Memory has shaped me once again

Still feel you on the inside
Biting through and stinging
Will I ever forget to remember?

Shadows in the sun
Filter through us
Still wrestle the demons that arrested me as a child
Confession rejected
We grow up
To give up
People step on the cracks for wounds owed paid back
Through the words of surrender

Emptiness
Loneliness
Listlessness
Worthless

I feel it on the inside
Twisting and contorting
Memory has shaped me once again
Still feel you on the inside
Biting through and stinging
Will I ever forget to remember?

Can you save me?
From myself
From these memories
Can you save me?
From myself
From these memories

Surrender
To the shadows
Haunting inside
Bleed through you
Surrender to the secrets...inside
Lies within you

I feel it on the inside
Twisting and contorting
Memory has shaped me once again
Still feel you on the inside
Biting through and stinging
Will I ever forget to remember?

Can't feel you on the inside
Set down the bag and left it
Lost memory has left me
One again
Open up the inside
Admission for the cleansing
Now that I've forgotten to remember

Surrender
To the shadows
Haunting inside
Bleed through you
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Serenity » Thu May 21, 2009 9:59 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV2FUKITJ9k

Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of death's construction
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds... Oh Lord yeah!

Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor, yeah

Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait 'till their Judgment day comes, yeah!

Now in darkness, world stops turning
Ashes where the bodies burning
No more war pigs of the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of Judgment, God is calling
On their knees the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan, laughing, spreads his wings
Oh Lord yeah!
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby analog » Fri May 22, 2009 3:11 pm

On the other hand,

"Only liberal societies tolerate Pacifists. In the liberal society, the number of Pacifists will either be large enough to cripple the state as a belligerent, or not.
If not, you have done nothing.
If it is large enough, then you have handed over the state which does tolerate Pacifists to its totalitarian neighbor who does not.
Pacifism of this kind is taking the straight road to a world in which there will be no Pacifists."
- The Weight of Glory and Other Essays, C.S. Lewis


i guess he saw that almost happen in Britain.

a.
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri May 22, 2009 3:43 pm

analog wrote:On the other hand,

"Only liberal societies tolerate Pacifists. In the liberal society, the number of Pacifists will either be large enough to cripple the state as a belligerent, or not.
If not, you have done nothing.
If it is large enough, then you have handed over the state which does tolerate Pacifists to its totalitarian neighbor who does not.
Pacifism of this kind is taking the straight road to a world in which there will be no Pacifists."
- The Weight of Glory and Other Essays, C.S. Lewis


i guess he saw that almost happen in Britain.

a.


It's still happening only the pacifism is imposed by the state. It is illegal to defend yourself from attack in the UK
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Serenity » Fri May 22, 2009 9:42 pm

"Sir, Yes, Sir!" (I love the first half of this movie!)

(Beware....adult language)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyC0BmTY ... re=related
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Serenity » Fri May 22, 2009 9:57 pm

Full Metal Jacket - A Day at Boot Camp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXO1p0so ... re=related
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Re: Military Motivators

Postby Serenity » Fri May 22, 2009 10:15 pm

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