"Goverment Motors"

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"Goverment Motors"

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:29 pm

It deserves its own thread

"The 31-Year-Old in Charge of Dismantling G.M."

Now, there's a headline.
... Brian Deese, a not-quite graduate of Yale Law School who had never set foot in an automotive assembly plant...

Nor, for that matter, had he given much thought to what ailed an industry that had been in decline ever since he was born....

“There was a time between Nov. 4 and mid-February when I was the only full-time member of the auto task force,” Mr. Deese, a special assistant to the president for economic policy, acknowledged recently....

Mr. Deese’s role is unusual for someone who is neither a formally trained economist nor a business school graduate, and who never spent much time flipping through the endless studies about the future of the American and Japanese auto industries....


Surreal.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby dai bread » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:10 pm

Who does this guy know? And/or who is he related to?
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby analog » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:34 am

He's worked at a couple of washington think tanks

Center for American Progress http://www.americanprogress.org/

Center for Global Development http://www.cgdev.org/

Carnegie Endowment for International Peace http://www.carnegieendowment.org/

i'd feel better if he were a former Nascar driver.

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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:43 am

analog wrote: i'd feel better if he were a former Nascar driver.



I'd feel better if.... no, strike that, there's nothing about this situation that would ever make me feel better.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:29 am

Lawrence Kudlow

What does Government Motors say about the direction of the United States?

Historically, we don't own car companies -- or banks or insurance firms. But we do now. Tick them off on your fingers: GM, Citi, AIG. Oh, and let's not forget Fannie and Freddie, those big, quasi-government, taxpayer-owned housing agencies. California is broke and likely headed to bankruptcy. Will we the taxpayers own that, too?

Altogether, we're talking about hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars that will never be repaid. This is the stuff the Italians used to do, and the Brits before Margaret Thatcher, and the Soviets a long time ago. But it's something very new and very different for America.


At what point do you define Nationalization?

Does anyone here see anything good in all this?
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby Shapley » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:19 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:Does anyone here see anything good in all this?


The only good news I see is that the world ends in 2012. The world may explode before our nation implodes...

...small victory, that.
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby jamiebk » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:41 pm

Are we supposed to buy our HumVees from the Chinese now? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31059625/

Actaully, I think that the company that makes the military version (the HMMWV) is a separate and different company. They sold the Hummer (civilian version) rights to GM.
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:07 pm

jamiebk wrote:Are we supposed to buy our HumVees from the Chinese now? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31059625/

Actaully, I think that the company that makes the military version (the HMMWV) is a separate and different company. They sold the Hummer (civilian version) rights to GM.


That's correct, AM General makes the military version. The first H1 was actually a real hummer with a little lipstick. I've driven the military HUMVEEs in both the Gulf War and during our deployment in Somalia. While it's great in the desert it's a killer in narrow streets.

The Somalis that were mortaring our base almost exclusively used a neighborhood of Mogadishu called "Bermuda" as a base because they knew we couldn't respond quickly enough to get to them and counter battery artillery was banned. Of course they never used base plates for the mortars so the fire was mainly harassment rather than tactical. They could still kill you of course.

To drive a HUMVEE you had to take a course. It's wider than any American pick-up or car and the fiberglass fenders were always cracked or broken. The civilian H1 was terribly inefficient in most American settings.

Both the H2 and H3 are built on Suburban frames and other than looks share almost nothing with the H1 or original HUMVEEs.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby dai bread » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:01 pm

Shapley wrote:
Haggis@wk wrote:Does anyone here see anything good in all this?


The only good news I see is that the world ends in 2012. The world may explode before our nation implodes...

...small victory, that.


Other good news: General Motors-Holden is a company incorporated in Australia under Australian laws, so our Holden utes etc. will not be made by the U.S. govt. GM-H is distancing itself from Detroit as fast and as far as it can.
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby jamiebk » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:02 pm

I am buying one of these for Haggis: http://site.despair.com/governmentmotors/
Image
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:31 am

THAT I might wear
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:14 pm

Go here and watch these two commercials, one real the other's a parody and tell me which one sounds more honest.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby dai bread » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:28 pm

Miaowwwww...
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby jamiebk » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:41 pm

just spit my drink all over the computer screen :rofl:
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby OperaTenor » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:55 am

This isn't socialist economics, it's fascism.

Just sayin'....
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby Shapley » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:22 am

OperaTenor wrote:This isn't socialist economics, it's fascism.

Just sayin'....


Fascism, socialism, what do they really mean? We generally associate fascism with the Nazis, but 'Nazi' was an abbreviation of the National Socialist Party, so our most common example of 'fascism' is a socialist framework.

We had the same problem with communism, of course. And we refer to our republican form of government as 'democracy'. The labels have less meaning than you would think.

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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby jamiebk » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:33 am

Yes....true, but the word "facsism" is so nicely inflamatory.
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby OperaTenor » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:22 am

Fascism is an economic policy. Socialism is a political philosophy. They are not equivalents.
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby OperaTenor » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:30 am

jamiebk wrote:Yes....true, but the word "facsism" is so nicely inflamatory.


My intent is not to inflame, simply to call something by its proper name.

Historically, a distinction can be drawn between Hitler and Mussolini along those lines. Mussolini(who coined the term) was truly a fascist; his concern was primarily state economic control of all industry, while Hitler was truly a national socialist; EVERYTHING needed to be under the control of the state, more specifically, his state.

Hitler was insane. Mussolini was merely an idiot.

We are using crises as a pretext for nationalizing industries, one-by-one. My belief is that big business and government are doing this complicitly. What better way of insuring a corporate bottom line than by guaranteeing a steady flow of tax dollars into the corporate coffers? GWB tried to do it by his ham-handed SS privatization scheme, and now Obama's succeeding where GWB failed.

Mandating health insurance for everyone is a back-door method of nationalizing the health care industry; it guarantees income for the health insurance industry indefinitely.
Last edited by OperaTenor on Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Goverment Motors"

Postby Shapley » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:32 am

OperaTenor wrote:Fascism is an economic policy. Socialism is a political philosophy. They are not equivalents.


According to Merriam-Webster:

Socialism: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

Fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

Both are political philosophies. We refer to socialist economies and socialist governments, one is an economic theory, the other a political one. By the above definiton, fascism incorporates an economic philosophy, although it is usually a socialist economic philosophy, i.e. governmental ownership of production and distribution.
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