Apollo 13

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Re: Apollo 13

Postby dai bread » Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:01 pm

Indeed they would, and did for years even when ships were seaworthy enough to go out of sight of land. I believe one of Columbus' problems was the restiveness of his crew after a few weeks on the open ocean.

But one of the advantages of exploring against the wind is that the necessary tacking means you cover a wider area than if you sail in a straight line, and therefore you increase your chances of finding something.

NZ was found by picking up the wind you mentioned, Shap., and sailing south-west from the Cook Islands at the right time of the year. Next stop, Australia, but the wind across the Tasman is almost always westerly or south-westerly, and cold. Maori didn't get to Australia until they had European ships to do it in.
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby dai bread » Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:02 pm

Shapley wrote:
dai bread wrote: They didn't miss South America. The kumara (sweet potato) is native to South America and is found throughout Polynesia. Therefore someone brought it back from a voyage. Thor Heyerdahl's thesis may have something to do with it, but I think it more likely that Polynesians reached South America and explored enough of it to find the sweet potato. They would have been looking for supplies. The locals wouldn't have allowed settlement, so the Polynesians came home. I suspect that the first human sacrifice they witnessed would have had them in their canoes in minutes.


If I remember my sailing books correctly, the prevailing winds and currents in the South Pacific carry one Westward, to New Guinea, Australia, New Zealand, etc. To find suitable wind and currents Eastward, you have to travel South, into the 'roaring forties' and below. The weather there is not very hospitable, and land is rare to non-existent. Long-distance travel was possible long ago, but not common. Like the Greeks, Egyptians, etc., early sailors preferred to stay where the weather was a known entity and harbours could be found. All but the determined explorer would have avoided the riskier aspects of such travel.


Indeed they would, and did for years even when ships were seaworthy enough to go out of sight of land. I believe one of Columbus' problems was the restiveness of his crew after a few weeks on the open ocean.

But one of the advantages of exploring against the wind is that the necessary tacking means you cover a wider area than if you sail in a straight line, and therefore you increase your chances of finding something.

NZ was found by picking up the wind you mentioned, Shap., and sailing south-west from the Cook Islands at the right time of the year. Next stop, Australia, but the wind across the Tasman is almost always westerly or south-westerly, and cold. Maori didn't get to Australia until they had European ships to do it in.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby dai bread » Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:06 pm

Darn! I've forgotten how to delete posts! Senile dementia sets in.
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:00 am

As a resident of Hawaii, GCR, you'll be familiar with Polynesian voyaging


Many have the opinion that Polynesians were the finest sailors in the world, and highly skilled navigators too. I've seen Hokule'a tied up at the pier next to the Maritime museum many times. At the moment, I think its in Japan.

Modern day Hawaiians have lost those skills of their ancestors. On Hokule'as second voyage ( the first ended in tragedy) the scientists complained "all the Hawaiians want to do is smoke dope and listen to rap music."




edited for spelling, once again
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby dai bread » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:28 pm

I'm not surprised at all.

This article is an update on what's happening here in regards to historic Polynesian sailing. I'm fairly sure Hec Busby chooses his sailors carefully.

http://teaurere.org.nz/articles_NZHerald20081202.htm
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby Schmeelkie » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:51 am

Haggis@wk wrote:This is just too cool


Will have to show to Pumpkin. We have a book published about 2000 (really for 8-10 year olds or so) about space and space exploration, but it's amazing how quickly it's out of date. Didn't have Mars rovers in it and talks about various probes reaching planets in 2004 or 2006 - really need to go online and find updated info!

And FYI - I think there's enough restive people that we'll get back into space sooner or later. I'd go, but my field of expertise isn't easily relevant to space exploration...

On a vaguely related note - got an email from my mother-in-law about how Mars is closest to us this August than it has been in 100s of years...but it seems familiar - like that was actually last August. If anyone knows now, please post. Or I'll just try to go online this weekend and check it out. gotta get back to work now...
"Up plus down equals flat" Pumpkin, 3 yrs, 10 mo, July '07
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby Shapley » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:55 am

It was actually closest in 2003. The e-mail keeps circulating.

Also, Mars never appeared 'as big as the Moon to the naked eye'. If that happens, we have some really big problems that will make global warming look like a hiccough.

To expand on that: the original e-mail, in 2003, stated that Mars 'when viewed through a telescope' would appear as large as the Moon does 'to the naked eye'. This was probably correct, depending on the power of the telescope. I don't know if the original e-mail (which was taken from a science article) stated. I assume the original article did so. When later e-mails began to circulate, the part about 'viewed through a telescope' was deleted, and the e-mails stated that Mars would appear as big as the Moon to the naked eye.

Mars does get closer to the Earth every two years, I believe. But it doesn't get that close...
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby Shapley » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:06 pm

On another related note, I was looking skyward a couple of nights ago, and noticed one particularly bright star, or so I thought it was at the time. It began to grow brighter and brighter until it appears to outshine everything in the sky, then gradually grew dimmer until it vanished from sight. While observing it, I noticed that it was moving, slowly, across the sky. It appeared to move North-to-South, or perhaps Northeast-to-Southwest. My first thought was that it was the Space Station, which perhaps had rotated in a manner that made it reflect the recently-set Sun briefly, and that reflection dimmed as it continued to rotate. However, The North-South movement would seem (to me) to indicate that it was something else.
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby Shapley » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:08 am

Having successfully dropped a trash can on the Moon, NASA is now planning a trip to one of Saturn's moons

I wonder what we'll drop there...
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby jamiebk » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:22 am

Shapley wrote:Having successfully dropped a trash can on the Moon, NASA is now planning a trip to one of Saturn's moons

I wonder what we'll drop there...


A lot of money....
Jamie

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Re: Apollo 13

Postby DavidS » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:39 am

jamiebk wrote:
Shapley wrote:Having successfully dropped a trash can on the Moon, NASA is now planning a trip to one of Saturn's moons

I wonder what we'll drop there...


A lot of money....


Absolutely - on the one hand "Where there's muck there's money" (in theory);
on the other hand, the talent for turning money into trash is far more common...
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby Shapley » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:59 pm

NASA Is Cleaning Out The Attic: Giving Away Excess Property

Of course, you have to have a museum or space-related facility to apply.
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:24 pm

Shapley wrote:...you have to have a museum or space-related facility to apply.

I have a hobby stash with a little space - a nice little moon rock would look lovely between the batiks and the yarn.
>^..^<
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby piqaboo » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:04 pm

I think we just inaugurated the SelmaOToid space related museum.
Altoid collects rocks, and all....
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:12 pm

When I was running my detachment at George AFB in Victorville we somehow came into possession of an AIR-2 Genie dummy missile and its wheeled carrier. Lord I hope it was a dummy, after the USAF's screw up in moving live cruise missiles a few years back it started me wonder.

The Genie was an unguided air-to-air rocket with a 1.5kt W25 nuclear warhead. It was supposed to be fired into formations of Soviet bombers.

Anyway I had the damn dummy and couldn't get rid of it. I could only give it to a museum and I didn’t have a clue how to find one (pre-internet days, how did we function??)

It wasn’t an issue for years since my office was an old flightline fire station, complete with six huge fire truck size parking bays. I was actually the official federal undercover parking lot for the LA basin and I had some neat cars that I was authorized to drive. The fastest I have ever driven a car was 147 MPH in a Corvette on the road between George AFB and Edwards AFB; scared the hell out of me.

Anyway, back to the missile. As George was scheduled to close in 1992 I had to find a home for this thing. I called the Air and Space Museum and the Air Force Museum without any help. Finally, all my calling resulted in a museum calling me and asking for it.

In a quirky update when I was writing this I Googled the missile and found the very one I finally got rid of to the Hill AFB museum
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby Shapley » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:20 pm

I saw a while back that the Navy has a couple of cold-war era ships of which they can't seem to rid themselves. I don't remember if I posted a link or not. If I recall correctly, they were a pair - a spy boat and mother ship. They were futuristic-looking, but not really impressive to look at, no big guns on deck, and they have no reported history of which to speak. Being spy ships and all, they kept their missions under wraps. Thus, cash-strapped maritime museums aren't clamouring to add them to their expensive-to-maintain fleets, given their limited drawing potential. Hopefully, NASA will have better luck.
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby BigJon » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:34 pm

How did they expect an unguided missile to come close to anything valuable?
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby Shapley » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:29 pm

Remember the old saying: "Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and Hydrogen bombs".
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:36 am

BigJon wrote:How did they expect an unguided missile to come close to anything valuable?


EMP, luck, who knows. To paraphase your tag line even a blind chicken finds a worm every now and then. Planners were envisoning box formations of nuclear armed Tupolevs ala B-17s, 1943 style.

I'm glad I was young and didn't realize what a truly scary place the world was in those days.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Apollo 13

Postby Shapley » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:53 am

A cannonball is an unguided missile, and they've been hitting targets and sinking ships for hundreds of years.
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