What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Everyone loves a healthy debate. Post an idea or comment about a current event or issue. Let others post their ideas also. This area is for those who love to explore other points of view.

Moderator: Nicole Marie

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:08 pm

Robin of Berkeley, at American Thinker, has just become someone I want to read regularly.

Here's an excerpt of her recent encounter with a snobbish female Episcopal priest:

Given my spiritual longing, I decided it was time to explore places of worship. Being a secular Jew, my first step should have been a temple. However, the synagogues around here are practically recruitment stations for Obama (aside from the Orthodox ones, but I don't speak a word of Hebrew). So I decided to experience church on Christmas Eve.

Checking out churches online, I found almost none that offered political neutrality. Most heralded their progressive credentials, welcoming the transgendered, but not conservatives.

I was pleased to find an Episcopal church whose website focused on religion, not ObamaCare. I left a message for the priest that I was looking for a church that didn't press a political agenda because I wasn't a liberal.

I received an icy reply from the priest, the Reverend Lucy, who said with barely-contained disgust, "I don't think you should check us out."

Her response left me shaken and angry. I understand that leftists despise conservatives. I have seen that creepy look of pure hatred when I naïvely told a leftist friend about my political conversion.
But an Episcopal priest rejecting me during the holiest time of year? Isn't anything or anyone sacred?

In shunning me, the Reverend Lucy exposed not only her own hypocrisy, but the duplicity of the left itself. She unveiled the left's dirty little secret -- that their doctrines are as bogus as global warming.
I used to believe it all. But when I removed one piece -- that the left protects women -- the whole house of cards came tumbling down.

Obama and his friends preach tolerance, but there is bigotry at their group's core. As displayed by the Reverend Lucy, this is a spiritually vacuous ideology. While they fashion themselves as human saviors, they clearly don't like people very much, and they despise conservatives.


I've not experienced the same as Robin but I'm a Methodist in Texas. I do know some very Liberal People at my church but we love them and cherish them and their families. I can't imagine experiencing this kind of ostracization, it is a sad thing to see... do read the rest of Robin's piece, including her letter to the Very Sad Reverend Lucy...
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby analog » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:59 pm

Obama and his friends preach tolerance, but there is bigotry at their group's core. As displayed by the Reverend Lucy, this is a spiritually vacuous ideology. While they fashion themselves as human saviors, they clearly don't like people very much, and they despise conservatives.


The sick in soul insist it is humanity that is sick, and they are the surgeons to operate on it.
eric hoffer
Cogito ergo doleo.
analog
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 12:01 am
Location: arkansas ozarks

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby Shapley » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:53 pm

I posted a link around Easter time about a Canadian preacher who did not believe in God. The article stated that she had re-worked the language of the hymns in order to replace God's name with the word "love". She lost her faith, but didn't want to do the honourable thing and resign her post as keeper of the faith she no longer had.

I suspect that such godless preachers may be somewhat common.

V/R
Shapley
Last edited by Shapley on Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby jamiebk » Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:07 pm

Shapley wrote:I posted a link around Easter time about a Canadian preacher who did not believe in God. The article stated that she had re-worked the language of the hymns in order to replace God's name with the word "love". She lost her faith, but didn't want to do the honourable thing and resign her post as keeper of the faith she no longer had.

I suspect that such godless preachers may somewhat common.

V/R
Shapley


I had enough of organized religion. I served as an elder and was head of Session (ruling body) for a time. Actually served as President of the our church board. My wife was on the Finance committee. We headed the leadership for a young couples group as well. When the church went on a building campaign and our dear, dear church friends became known as "Giving Units" to the church leaders, I left. Too much politics and church "business" for me. We didn't sign up for that.
Jamie

"Leave it better than you found it"
jamiebk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 4284
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:01 am
Location: SF Bay Area - Wine Country

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby dai bread » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:33 pm

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10616011

What do you guys think of this? It was taken down after 3 attacks.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
dai bread
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3020
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby jamiebk » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:38 pm

I am not sure of the point of it, but it made me laugh...cynic that I am. Sometimes I have a dark sense of humor not shared by everyone. I am sure that the billboard really pissed off a lot of people. If something akin to that was posted in the Muslim world, people would die.
Jamie

"Leave it better than you found it"
jamiebk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 4284
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:01 am
Location: SF Bay Area - Wine Country

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby analog » Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:05 pm

It's immeasurably better taste than those damned advertisements all over US for erection pills.

I think it's healthy to have some humor.

An easygoing person is probably more accessible to the realization of eternity--the endless flow of life and death--than one who takes his prospects and duties overseriously. It is the overserious who are truly frivolous.
eric hoffer, emphasis mine

If all religions would lighten up a bit the world would be a better place.

'Religious jihad' should be an oxymoron.



a.
Cogito ergo doleo.
analog
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 12:01 am
Location: arkansas ozarks

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby dai bread » Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:46 pm

The idea of the poster was to get people talking about the birth of Christ. It did, but unfortunately it also brought out the doctrinaires and bigots. Who ever said Mary remained a virgin for the rest of her life? And how would they know anyway?
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
dai bread
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3020
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby Shapley » Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:53 pm

dai bread wrote:The idea of the poster was to get people talking about the birth of Christ. It did, but unfortunately it also brought out the doctrinaires and bigots. Who ever said Mary remained a virgin for the rest of her life? And how would they know anyway?


The Catholic Church teaches that Mary remained a virgin. I've always seen it as a moot point. She had to be pure to deliver the son of God. After that, her purity was no longer a factor.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby barfle » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:07 pm

dai bread wrote:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10616011

What do you guys think of this? It was taken down after 3 attacks.

I noted the article said it was intended to spark conversations about the birth of Christ, which strikes me as a good thing. Those who feel it attacks their belief need to get over themselves and find out what it really does.
--I know what I like--
barfle
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Springfield, Vahjinyah, USA

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:16 pm

Shapley wrote:
dai bread wrote:...Who ever said Mary remained a virgin for the rest of her life? And how would they know anyway?


The Catholic Church teaches that Mary remained a virgin...

The neighbors in Nazareth, complaining that Jesus was too big for his hat, said
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Judas, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

That's Mark 6:3, and I count 4 brothers that were named, and sisters (plural) - 6 sibs. Maybe more. Depends on how many girls there were.
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:17 pm

The billboard was still way tacky.
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby Shapley » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:38 pm

Selma in Sandy Eggo wrote:That's Mark 6:3, and I count 4 brothers that were named, and sisters (plural) - 6 sibs. Maybe more. Depends on how many girls there were.


According to the notes in my Jerusalem Bible, the translation is the same for 'brothers' and 'sisters' as for 'cousins'. Not being a Hebrew scholar, I do not know if that is true, but as I said, it is a moot point, IMHO. It was necessary for Mary to be pure at the time of Jesus' birth, since one cannot pour pure water from a soiled vessel. However, once the pure water is drawn forth, and assuming no second drawing is necessary, the dispostion of the vessel becomes immaterial. To be sure, the subject of Mary's purity after Jesus' birth is not discussed in the Bible.

Nonetheless, Among Catholics, Orthodox Christians, and believers in Islam, she remains ἀειπάρθενος (ever-virgin).
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby piqaboo » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:33 pm

I ran Free Translation on
cousins
brothers
sisters
siblings.

I dont know if the results will display:
בני דודיו
אחים
אחיות
אחים

It appears that "brothers" and "siblings" translated the same, "sisters" differs a bit from them, and "cousins" is quite different.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby Shapley » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:52 pm

Looks that way, but I don't know if modern Hebrew differs from the Hebrew of 2,000 years ago. English, as noted in an earlier thread, has added many words just in the short timeframe during which Merriam-Webster has been compiling dictionaries.

As I say, I haven't got a dog in this fight. I've stated the Catholic, Orthodox, and Islamic viewpoint on the issue. Being Catholic, I am inclined to accept their scholarship on the issue, but I don't see it as significant one way or the other. I suppose it could have some bearing on the traditional belief in the Assumption, as her purity could possibly be an issue there, that is to say if she were debased, she possibly could not have been assumed directly into Heaven, as we usually have to do stop-over in Purgatory to undergo ritual cleansing before entering the Pearly Gates. Then again, sex itself is not debasing, as long as it matrimonial and, according to Catholic dogma, sans artificial means of birth control. I suppose the debasing nature of intercourse in her case would come from her conjugal contact with an impure person (one born with the stain of sin, while she was not). Again, I don't know that it matters.

Besides, as Selma says, the billboard was tacky.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:00 am

I didn’t write this but it mirrors my thought processes exactly. I guess I’m a cowardly agnostic. As the song goes: “I don’t believe in Heaven but I pray there ain’t no Hell.”
I’ve read “The Inner Kingdom” not a weekend read, but I can assure you it’s provocative. Shapley, see if you local library has it.
Bishop Kallistos Ware, a convert from Anglicanism to Eastern Orthodoxy, devotes a chapter in his book The Inner Kingdom to the question, “Dare We Hope for the Salvation of All?” This is one of the most fascinating debates in theology, involving as it does the apparently irreconcilable contradiction between God’s omnibenevolence and man’s freedom. Bishop Ware cites the famous texts from Paul that seem to point toward universal salvation. (I Cor. 15:22: “As all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.” Rom. 5:18: “Just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all.” I Cor. 15:28: “God will be all in all.”) He represents the opposing view as well, with great fairness: “If the triumph of God’s love is inevitable and there is ultimately nothing for us to choose between, does this not make our present acts of moral decision trivial and meaningless?”

The third-century theologian Origen, one of the key historical proponents of the notion of universal restoration, advocated that the doctrine be kept secret, lest it lead people into spiritual laziness. Ware writes:

No doubt it is for this reason that the 19th-century Pietist theologian Christian Gottlieb Barth remarks, “Anyone who does not believe in the universal restoration is an ox, but anyone who teaches it is an ass.”

To this Ware appends a footnote that is, for me, worth the price of the book:

Professor Donald Paul Burgo of Fontbonne College, St. Louis, . . . rightly adds that the ox and the ass were already at the stable in Bethlehem before the wise men had found their way to it.

One of the best examples of theological charity I’ve ever come across. These are matters far above the mind of man; but we are reliably told that man is destined for matters far above the mind of man.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby Shapley » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:07 am

I'll make note of the title and look for it.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby Shapley » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:11 am

"Why," said another, "Some there are who tell
Of one who threatens he will toss to Hell
The luckless Pots he marr'd in making--Pish!
He's a Good Fellow, and 'twill all be well."

- Omar Khayyam -
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby analog » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:23 pm

what's wrong with being an agnostic? it says you're thinking about it.

i think whole 20th century science is hung up on electromagnetics, probably because Einstein was imprinted at early age playing as a kid in his dad's electromagnet factory. If you can't find it with meter sticks and voltmeters then it doesn't exist.

Electricity was a mystical parlor game until Franklin flew his kite. Folks would hold hands in a circle to experience shocks from static electricity.
Jung's synchronicity is still in the parlor game stage, and it defies measurement by traditional physics because it ignores causality.. Pauli dabbled in it, unsuccessfully.

there's something else out there.

May the force be with you.

a.
Cogito ergo doleo.
analog
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 12:01 am
Location: arkansas ozarks

Re: What is Religion??? and what is its Purpose???

Postby Schmeelkie » Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:41 am

Shapley wrote:
dai bread wrote:The idea of the poster was to get people talking about the birth of Christ. It did, but unfortunately it also brought out the doctrinaires and bigots. Who ever said Mary remained a virgin for the rest of her life? And how would they know anyway?


The Catholic Church teaches that Mary remained a virgin. I've always seen it as a moot point. She had to be pure to deliver the son of God. After that, her purity was no longer a factor.


Made me think of the film Dogma - following from Wikipedia:
Smith's fourth film, Dogma, had an all-star cast and found itself mired in controversy. The religious-themed comedy, which starred a post-Good Will Hunting Ben Affleck and Matt Damon, as well as Chris Rock, Salma Hayek, George Carlin, Alan Rickman, Linda Fiorentino, and Smith regulars Jason Lee and Jason Mewes, raised the ire of the Catholic League due largely to a reference about the Virgin Mary having post-Jesus intercourse with her husband, Joseph. Smith received over 10,000 pieces of protest/hate mail (some of which were showcased on the film's official website) and three death threats.


The Linda Fiorentino character is a 'scion' - great great...etc. grand neice of Jesus. So is chosen to save the world. Chris Rock, an angel, tells her something to the effect of, 'What? you think after all those years together Mary and Joseph never behaved as husband and wife?' A fun, weird film - not for the easily offended. (with the great addition of Silent Bob (Kevin Smith) having his one line (usually only spoke once/film) be, after he threw one of the fallen angels off a train, 'No ticket' - pulling from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade)
"Up plus down equals flat" Pumpkin, 3 yrs, 10 mo, July '07
Schmeelkie
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1201
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Rochester, NY

PreviousNext

Return to The Debate Team

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron