Memorial Day

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Re: Memorial Day

Postby dai bread » Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:07 pm

That's an interesting philosophy re the war dead.

We tend to follow the British idea of leaving the fallen where they fell; at least in the country, if not necessarily on the battlefield. "There is some corner of a foreign field that is forever England".

Or Kemal Ataturk's moving tribute to the fallen at Gallipoli:

"Those heroes who shed their blood and lost their lives, you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side in this country of ours. You, the mothers who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears, your sons are now lying in our bosoms and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they become our sons as well."
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat May 01, 2010 10:16 am

dai bread wrote:That's an interesting philosophy re the war dead.

We tend to follow the British idea of leaving the fallen where they fell; at least in the country, if not necessarily on the battlefield. "There is some corner of a foreign field that is forever England".

Or Kemal Ataturk's moving tribute to the fallen at Gallipoli:

"Those heroes who shed their blood and lost their lives, you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side in this country of ours. You, the mothers who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears, your sons are now lying in our bosoms and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they become our sons as well."


Sorry, I call penny-pinching political sophistic BS.

Every family of every G.I.s Imageburied here in Cambridge(original photos here) can ask that their fallen (son, brother, father, uncle, etc) be returned to the U.S. and it will happen. Our fallen lie on those foreign shores at the specific behest of their families.

As I said earlier every American service member has a contract with the United States. If you die for our country we will never, ever stop looking for your remains and try, to our best effort, to return you to the country and family you died for. And it is a contract that knows no financial, time, or location restrictions.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby Shapley » Sat May 01, 2010 12:09 pm

Go tell the Spartans, thou who passest by,
That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.


Leonidas and the 300 did not return, with their shields or on them. A stone marks the place of their death, wth the inscription loosely translated above.

Similarly, we have war dead in Normandy, Hawaii (not then a part of the United States), Guam, and elsewhere. However, we are loathe to leave their bodies in enemy territory. Hal Moore's excellent book, We were soldiers once, and young. tells of the efforts to bring all of our troops home from the Ia Drang valley, with their shields or on them.
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat May 01, 2010 2:24 pm

Here’s the original letter that led to the HBO special “Taking Chance” starring Kevin Bacon. I find both to be compelling and a reflection of how America regards their military. The movie is wrenching, but I highly recommend it. The Brits are equally proud. I’m not slighting any other country; I just only know how America and the Brits feel about their war dead.

Image.

I took this in the small village of Lydford in Cornwall in 2004 and was shocked to see that the Iraq war had visited such a peaceful and out of the way village in the south of England

posted the following last year and still am amazed by it when I see it again, just incredible.

The following video is simply magnificent. It's 12 minutes long, but it makes an incredible point - the people of America love and honor their warriors and appreciate the sacrifice they make. The video is shot from inside the procession which picked up the remains of SSG John Beale and shows the crowds which turned out to honor him as it traveled through various parts and towns in Henry County, GA, where SSG Beale was from.

If you get through this without tearing up a bit, you're a better person than I am. This is living proof of the change that has taken place among this nation's citizens since the Viet Nam era and I can't adequately express my thanks for the incredibly positive change that has been.

Thank you, citizens of Henry County, GA for the magnificent way in which you honored the sacrifice of SSG John Beale. You make us all proud.

And thank you SSG Beale for the service and sacrifice you gave to our country. My prayers are with your family.

A hero's salute
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon May 10, 2010 5:16 pm

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu May 13, 2010 4:39 pm

“courageous restraint” medal

This is just insane. I can't wait for the first posthumous award.....jeez
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby dai bread » Thu May 13, 2010 6:49 pm

It's quite a good idea, I think. It takes courage to hold your fire under threat.
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby DavidS » Thu May 13, 2010 10:50 pm

Discretion is the better part of valour
Henry IV, Part One
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri May 14, 2010 8:00 am

dai bread wrote:It's quite a good idea, I think. It takes courage to hold your fire under threat.


We generally call that by another name, "cowardice"

Discretion is the better part of valour


We have a name for people who've never been shot at in combat, "civilians"
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby Shapley » Fri May 14, 2010 8:14 am

I posted some time ago a link to a study that was done on the percentage of combat soldiers in World War II who actually fired their weapons at the enemy, even when they were under fire, it was quite small.

They would have been handing out a lot of those medals back then...
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby DavidS » Fri May 14, 2010 9:21 am

Haggis@wk wrote:
dai bread wrote:It's quite a good idea, I think. It takes courage to hold your fire under threat.


We generally call that by another name, "cowardice"

Discretion is the better part of valour


We have a name for people who've never been shot at in combat, "civilians"


1. He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day.
2. Is being targeted by a terror bomb "being shot at"?

How does one reply to the Richard Goldstones of this world?
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri May 14, 2010 3:15 pm

DavidS wrote: 1. He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day.


Been there and done that, but that didn't stop people shooting at me or me returning fire until I could extract myself from an ugly situation.

DavidS wrote: 2. Is being targeted by a terror bomb "being shot at"?


No.

DavidS wrote: How does one reply to the Richard Goldstones of this world?


What the hell does a racist, anti-Semite South African hanging judge have to do with “courageous restraint” medal??

Shapley, Those days are long past. Training and current combat environment pretty much commits all U.S. combatants to a shooting role. All of the lack of shooting pretty much went away when the draft went away.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby dai bread » Fri May 14, 2010 6:33 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:
dai bread wrote:It's quite a good idea, I think. It takes courage to hold your fire under threat.


1. We generally call that by another name, "cowardice"

Discretion is the better part of valour


2. We have a name for people who've never been shot at in combat, "civilians"


1. Only if you run away. If you face the threat, and still hold your fire, that's courage. Of course, you may have to open fire anyway. I'm not advocating allowing yourself to be shot at.

2. Well, yes. Plus all those back-room people needed to keep fighting military in action. What did someone say a while ago? 9 back-room people to one front-line fighter, if I remember correctly.

BTW, I don't want to put down your combat experience, Haggis. Far from it.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat May 15, 2010 11:08 am

I didn't mean to be curt. American G.I.s display “courageous restraint” every day simply by following the Rules of Engagement. The RoE in Afghanistan is alreay killing G.I.s because they can't request close air support in many situations; that wasn't the case last year. There use to be two medals I did my best not to qualify for; the Purple Heart and the POW medal. I'll add the medal for “courageous restraint” to that list.

BTW, I don't want to put down your combat experience
Trust me, I was an old NCO the first time I was in combat, I never ever ran towards the sound of gunfire, I left that to the younger G.I.s and junior officers!! :rofl:

p.s. I'm in a quandry for the next hour. Today is Armed Forces day so I should fly my flag at full staff but it's also Police Officers Memorial day and I'm to fly the flag at half staff until noon.
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun May 30, 2010 6:43 pm

ALMIGHTY God, our heavenly Father, in whose hands are the living and the dead; We give thee thanks for all those thy servants who have laid down their lives in the service of our country. Grant to them thy mercy and the light of thy presence, that the good work which thou hast begun in them may be perfected; through Jesus Christ thy Son our Lord. Amen.


"Mansion of the Lord"\


Remember that at 15:00 local is the national hour of remembrance. Stp what you are doing and spend a minute remembering our Fallen.......
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun May 30, 2010 6:46 pm

ALMIGHTY God, our heavenly Father, in whose hands are the living and the dead; We give thee thanks for all those thy servants who have laid down their lives in the service of our country. Grant to them thy mercy and the light of thy presence, that the good work which thou hast begun in them may be perfected; through Jesus Christ thy Son our Lord. Amen.

Masion of the Lord

remember that at 15:00 observe one minite of reverence.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby GreatCarouser » Mon May 31, 2010 12:21 am

I wanted to check in and thank all the board members who served as well as all those not on the board. "Freedom isn't free. Somebody paid." Thanks
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon May 31, 2010 3:36 pm

RIP:

Lt. Col. James B. Hogue, USAF ret. 1918 - 2000. A veteran of that hell called Okinawa. My Dad
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:34 pm

Spent Sunday with my Cub Scout son placing leis and flags on the graves at the Veteran's Cemetary of the Pacific in the Punchbowl crater. Every grave gets a lei and a flag. All 33,000 of them. We've done this four years now. Other years graves get two leis, but a drought caused a shortage of flowers. When finished, the whole crater was perfumed with the scent of plumeria.

My wife and Girl Scout daughter went to the windward side where there is a second Veteran's cemetary. There were only 300 leis for 8,000 graves. The leis are made mostly by high school students, but due to budget cuts the schools finished early this year, so there was no one to make them.

I read the plaques on the graves. Sort of a laconic biography. Name, DOB, DOD, branch of service. Most of those killed were in the 18 to 23 age group. So young. This year, near the front, I found one "Unidentified. USS Arizona." Also seven unidentified, USS Oklahoma. The body parts from seven individuals in one grave. Who were they? Someones' brothers, husbands, someones' sons.
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Re: Memorial Day

Postby piqaboo » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:48 pm

On Monday: "Mommy, Asher told me how his dad died. His dad knew how to swim. He was in an airplane over the deep ocean where its really deep. The airplane he was in and another airplane crashed." Active duty, middle East. RIP Asher's father.
Altoid - curiously strong.
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