Gulf Oil Spill

Everyone loves a healthy debate. Post an idea or comment about a current event or issue. Let others post their ideas also. This area is for those who love to explore other points of view.

Moderator: Nicole Marie

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby Shapley » Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:46 pm

jamiebk wrote:Yeah...OK, but it's not an "oil spill" issue


I'm not sure. Would he perhaps be more sympathetic, or at least take a milder tone, if the company involved did not have the British connection? I can only speculate but, as Iliam notes, he continually refers to them as 'British Petroleum'. Surely someone in his cabinet has notified him that they do not go by that name anymore.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:18 am

UNEXPECTEDLY! ‘Reasonably high’ chance BP files for bankruptcy.

There is a reasonably high chance that BP could file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in the next few years, or even months, and the result would be an “absolute horror” for the government, according to a bankruptcy expert.

Peter S. Kaufman, the President of investment bank Gordian Group and head of the firm’s Restructuring and Distressed M&A practice, told me that if he had BP’s ear, “I’d advise them to explore the option of bankruptcy.”

If he had the government’s ear, he’d tell them to stop berating the company to the point where BP would find it appealing to use bankruptcy to limit its liabilities.

When a company can’t rely on the “due process” of the Constitution it looks elsewhere to protect itself.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:53 am

If they file bankruptcy....to limit their liability....
well.. IMHO... BP executives should go to jail.....

what a horrible loophole this would be............... :curse:
Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it.
Trumpetmaster
Patron
 
Posts: 11557
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby Shapley » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:56 am

That would be interesting: Going to jail for using the law to ones' benefit...

Interesting, but it probably wouldn't be a first...
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby jamiebk » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:44 pm

Shapley wrote:That would be interesting: Going to jail for using the law to ones' benefit...

Interesting, but it probably wouldn't be a first...


Not for BK...that's legal. They should go to jail for Manslaughter :curse:
Jamie

"Leave it better than you found it"
jamiebk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 4284
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:01 am
Location: SF Bay Area - Wine Country

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:41 pm

The House Rules Committee met yesterday to set the rules for debate on the DISCLOSE Act. True to form, the committee kept the public out of a hearing about a bill intended to promote “transparency” in elections.

The Rules Committee decided to allow only one hour of debate before a vote, which will probably occur either Thursday or Friday. All GOP motions, including one to extend the debate to four hours, were rejected. The Democrats believe that only one hour of free speech is needed before voting on a bill that will severely restrict free speech.

An effort to allow a vote on eliminating the NRA exemption was defeated, thus guaranteeing a two-tiered system of First Amendment rules for political speech. The Democratic leadership will only allow floor votes on five amendments. The first would require covered organizations to report required disclosures to shareholders, members, and donors in a “clear and conspicuous manner.”

The second would prohibit any company with leases on the Outer Continental Shelf from making campaign-related expenditures. In other words, Congress would silence companies that are in favor of oil and gas drilling, but not the critics of offshore drilling. One could not find a starker example of how this bill is intended to silence those whose political views the liberals don’t like.

Elections have consequences
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:03 pm

The gulf oil spill: an “avertable catastrophe.”

Some are attuned to the possibility of looming catastrophe and know how to head it off. Others are unprepared for risk and even unable to get their priorities straight when risk turns to reality.

The Dutch fall into the first group. Three days after the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico began on April 20, the Netherlands offered the U.S. government ships equipped to handle a major spill, one much larger than the BP spill that then appeared to be underway. “Our system can handle 400 cubic metres per hour,” Weird Koops, the chairman of Spill Response Group Holland, told Radio Netherlands Worldwide, giving each Dutch ship more cleanup capacity than all the ships that the U.S. was then employing in the Gulf to combat the spill.

To protect against the possibility that its equipment wouldn’t capture all the oil gushing from the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, the Dutch also offered to prepare for the U.S. a contingency plan to protect Louisiana’s marshlands with sand barriers. One Dutch research institute specializing in deltas, coastal areas and rivers, in fact, developed a strategy to begin building 60-mile-long sand dikes within three weeks. . . .

Why does neither the U.S. government nor U.S. energy companies have on hand the cleanup technology available in Europe? Ironically, the superior European technology runs afoul of U.S. environmental rules. The voracious Dutch vessels, for example, continuously suck up vast quantities of oily water, extract most of the oil and then spit overboard vast quantities of nearly oil-free water. Nearly oil-free isn’t good enough for the U.S. regulators, who have a standard of 15 parts per million — if water isn’t at least 99.9985% pure, it may not be returned to the Gulf of Mexico. . . .

The Americans, overwhelmed by the catastrophic consequences of the BP spill, finally relented and took the Dutch up on their offer — but only partly. Because the U.S. didn’t want Dutch ships working the Gulf, the U.S. airlifted the Dutch equipment to the Gulf and then retrofitted it to U.S. vessels. And rather than have experienced Dutch crews immediately operate the oil-skimming equipment, to appease labour unions the U.S. postponed the clean-up operation to allow U.S. crews to be trained.

A catastrophe that could have been averted is now playing out.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby dai bread » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:49 pm

They should have let the unions protest or even strike. The public reaction would have been interesting.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
dai bread
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3020
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby lliam » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:02 pm

Shapley wrote:
jamiebk wrote:Yeah...OK, but it's not an "oil spill" issue


I'm not sure. Would he perhaps be more sympathetic, or at least take a milder tone, if the company involved did not have the British connection? I can only speculate but, as Iliam notes, he continually refers to them as 'British Petroleum'. Surely someone in his cabinet has notified him that they do not go by that name anymore.[/quote
================================================================================

[Easy target for Obama]

Recent events in the United States serve to demonstrate what a foolish fallacy the idea is of there being a "special relationship" between that country and Great Britain. BP, or British Petroleum, as Mr Obama prefers to name it, is being ripped to shreds in a feeding frenzy of greed by American lawyers and lawmakers alike.

The loss of dividends to this country will be huge. Equally huge, and something that is carefully not being mentioned by our politicians as yet, will be the consequent loss of tax revenues to the British Treasury. This loss of national income, which we can ill afford, will be viewed with understandable alarm by our foreign creditors on whose goodwill we now depend.

Let anyone who is tempted to believe the anti-BP propaganda consider this; is it possible to believe, even for a moment, that the Americans would have behaved in the same manner towards a Russian or Chinese-owned company? Not a chance. The Americans do not see us as friends – just an easy target too weak to hit back. Let us at least get out of Afghanistan. Or are we too terrified of the Americans to do even that?
Lliam.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
lliam
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1698
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Darlaston - West - Midlands - U.K.

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby Shapley » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:15 pm

Well, don't feel like the Lone Ranger. Look what they did to Toyota... ;)
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:42 am

Why can't we stupid humans work together?
All we due is play stupid politics, point fingers, assign blame,blah blah blah blah....

Animals are suffering
People wind up committing suicide.
Homes being lost due to no income.
Our beautiful coast is being destroyed.

We really dodged a bullet (IMHO) with Hurricane Alex.
What if the hurricane hit dead center in the oil slicks and brought them right on the shore?
If people think it's bad now... I can't imagine...

end of rant :curse:
Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it.
Trumpetmaster
Patron
 
Posts: 11557
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:50 pm

What if the hurricane hit dead center in the oil slicks and brought them right on the shore?


According to the link I posted on the Life...platform thread, oil is largely biodegradable and a fair amount will evaporate. I'm not saying there won't be a problem with wildlife, fishing, and tourism in the meantime. But under the right conditions the oil spill could clean itself up in a matter of weeks. A hurricane could produce and emulsion of oil and water, which would not degrade. Then this problem would be bigger.
Thinking is overrated
Giant Communist Robot
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3236
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Waiau, Hawaii

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:29 am

According to TV station WDSU, crews expecting a monthly paycheck came up empty yesterday, as BP failed to meet its agreed payroll date. The lawyer representing hundreds of the workers says BP won’t tell him when their money will come, either:

Hundreds of fishermen from Lake Charles to Moss Point, Miss., were supposed to get checks from BP on Wednesday but didn’t. Wednesday night, their lawyer wanted answers. Jeffrey Briet represents more than 500 fishermen, and he said the payment system he set up with BP required his clients to be paid every 30 days.
Now that process has suddenly changed without warning, Briet said.

“Not only did they spring it on us that the process has changed, but the people I’ve been dealing with for six weeks who’ve done a good job said, ‘We don’t know what the process is going to be. We’re not authorized to talk to you about it. Someone from BP will contact you,’” he said.

But Briet said he hasn’t heard from BP or its lawyers. He said the claims people have been given so much conflicting information about the process that they can’t provide answers.


Generally speaking, when a company fails to make payroll or meet its Accounts Payable on time, it’s a sign of potential collapse. I hadn't mentioned this before butr I was going to work on another contract for BP doing what I did last year. That's was put on hold then the company I contract with was told it was cancelled. That's kind of revealing. What I was doing is a government mandate and without a Transportation Worker Identification Credential a worker can't work on a platform or even go to any American Port.

That's not a good sign and will re-ignite rumors about a possible bankrupcy
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby jamiebk » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:52 am

BP netted $16.8 billion in profit last year. For the first quarter of this year, they have netted $6.2 Billion. The cost of the clean-up thus far has been in the $2-3 billion range. Operating cash flow added $7.7 billion in cash while cash expenditures were $4.3 billion for CAPEX (capital expenditures) and $2.6 billion for dividends to shareholders (a discretionary item). Overall cash fell from $8.3 billion at 12/31/09 to $6.8 billion in the first quarter. They aren't going broke...they are stone-walling people who deserve to be paid for their service.
Jamie

"Leave it better than you found it"
jamiebk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 4284
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:01 am
Location: SF Bay Area - Wine Country

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:37 pm

That's not a good sign and will re-ignite rumors about a possible bankrupcy


I think this is a real possibility; for something similar look at Bhopal.
Thinking is overrated
Giant Communist Robot
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3236
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Waiau, Hawaii

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby jamiebk » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:04 pm

Giant Communist Robot wrote:
That's not a good sign and will re-ignite rumors about a possible bankrupcy


I think this is a real possibility; for something similar look at Bhopal.


If it happens it will be a matter of choice. The company will take BK to avoid all the lawsuits that are inevitable. The operations are however still profitable and cash flowing.
Jamie

"Leave it better than you found it"
jamiebk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 4284
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:01 am
Location: SF Bay Area - Wine Country

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:41 am

Consider the environment that BP has to operate in. We have a president that ignores the rule of law and gets away with it. He illegally seizes private property and ignores the lawful owners. Congress aids and abets his administration and the compliant press turns a blind eye.

No business in America is safe and the ones that aren't hunkering down to avoid attention are considering relocating out of the country. BP's safe, at least, in that regard but is rightful to fear that the U.S. will seize their assets, there's already a precedent, just ask GM bond holders or BP, after all he extorted $20BIL from it just last week. There are no rules in a thugocracy.

Bankruptcy is a real option, I suspect that BP would rather take their chance with a bankruptcy court judge than with the president; at least there’s a 50/50 chance the judge is honest.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:46 pm

Bankruptcy is a real option


It may be unavoidable
Thinking is overrated
Giant Communist Robot
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3236
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Waiau, Hawaii

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby Trumpetmaster » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:18 pm

More embarrassment for BP.....

BP digitally alters press photo, confesses it's a fake
Amateurish use of Photoshop causes yet another BP embarrassment


"We've instructed our post-production team to refrain from doing this in the future," said the spokesman in an e-mail to the Washington Post.
Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it.
Trumpetmaster
Patron
 
Posts: 11557
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Gulf Oil Spill

Postby piqaboo » Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:48 pm

refrain from what, embarrassing them?
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

PreviousNext

Return to The Debate Team

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron