Population

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Re: Population

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:58 pm

Sex Reversal

Sixteen million girls are missing in China. And now we know what happened to them: They were aborted because they weren't boys.


For details about a new study published in the British Medical Journal about the effects of the "One Child Policy" in China read this chilling article by William Saletan over at Slate.

I've said many times that the only irreplaceable resource on this planet is us. People who view humans as some kind of virus are the saddest, sickest, and most uninformed egalitarian elitists; they are the problem, not the solution.

P.S. not really related but have you noticed that the people most in favor of abortion on demand mananged to get born first?? Just, you know, sayin'...
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Re: Population

Postby jamiebk » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:56 pm

There is an enormous difference between having state mandated abortion forced upon a woman, and allowing a woman a choice.
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Re: Population

Postby piqaboo » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:10 am

Its not new information that China has a young adult female shortage, nor is the reason new information. Sad tho. China's got some nasty policies.
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Re: Population

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:47 pm

piqaboo wrote:Its not new information that China has a young adult female shortage, nor is the reason new information. Sad tho. China's got some nasty policies.


Those youg men will find spouses. Just as the Asian mentality prize boys over girls, the boys will find ways to obtain mates. This is gonna get ugly!
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Re: Population

Postby piqaboo » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:05 pm

Vietnam & Thailand have provided a spouse or two. However, they're "2nd class" citizens when they move to China.
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Re: Population

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:25 pm

Chinese kidnap Vietnamese “brides”

According to The Economist (March 14, 2009), gangs of kidnappers roam the mountains around Sapa in north Vietnam, hoping to snatch a potential bride or two for selling on in China. Typically, a Hmong girl is wooed by someone (Vietnamese or Chinese) who speaks her language. She gets lured to a rendezvous to be drugged and smuggled into China, probably near Lao Cai, an hour5's drive from Sapa. The magazine tells of one 18-year-old who escaped back home after four days, through jumping out of a window and going to the Chinese police. They took her back across the border. But most don't escape.

These kidnappings have been going on for some years. But local people say the numbers are rising among Hmong women. Bride-buying, a Chinese tradition that the Communists largely stamped out, is on the increase with the country's surging economy. Ever since the 1980s, "women were taken from poor areas, and sold to some areas that had recently gotten richer," says Ding Lu of the All-China Women's Federation, a Chinese NGO. In the 1990s, more women than men abandoned their villages for big-city jobs, leaving the countryside loaded with single men.


There is nothing new about bride kidnapping rings in China. "What's new is cross-border traffic," Ms. Ding says. The women come from mostly from Vietnam, according to the All-China Women's Federation, caused by Vietnamese relative poverty and the long, porous border. More than 10,000 women from Vietnam are in China illegally, according to International Organization for Migration estimates. "The pretty ones are sold as brides", says Nguyen Thi Phuong Thi of the Vietnam Women's <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 />Union, a Communist Party arm that monitors the problem. "The ugly ones go to brothels."

The kidnappers call their victims "straying cows." Dang Canh Khanh (Youth Research Institute in Hanoi) says the promise of a job is a common trick. In fact, he reckons women cross the border willingly on promises that they will be well cared for. Their young victims may trust the bride-brokers all the more because the traffickers often are Vietnamese women themselves. Former brides or prostitutes in China, they have the advantage of being able to move between the two cultures, says Pham Kim Ngoc, a researcher at the Center for Gender, Family and Environment Development, in Hanoi.

Selling new brides is lucrative, according to Samantha Marshall of the Wall Street Journal (August 5th 1999). At the border, where supplies are highest, a young woman is worth $250 to $800, with $50 to $100 of that, still a small fortune, going to the initial kidnappers, and the rest kept by brokers or traders who provide brides directly to buyers. The brides command a higher price in more remote regions, but the longer a trader holds on to a woman, the greater the chance of running into the authorities. So it isn't uncommon for a trader to make a quick deal near the border, then return to repurchase the bride for a richer transaction inland.


Pei Xingfu lives in the border village of Ban'ai. He was arrested for kidnapping a Vietnamese woman in broad daylight. According to him, about 30 to 40 per cent of his fellow villagers marry Vietnamese women. "Thanks to the opening up (of the country) and reform, villagers here are better off and therefore can afford to marry Chinese brides. I don't understand why they still want to wed Vietnamese women, even young men between 26 and 30," he says.

In the past few years, about seven men in the village have been sentenced for trafficking in Vietnamese women. Dongxing City shares 35.77 kilometres of the country's land boundary line and 42 kilometres of the coastal boundary with Vietnam. Ever since the Viertnam War there has been a tradition of marrying on either side of the border. This has given rise to trafficking of Vietnamese women in China. According to www.boloji.com , eight border towns in Guangxi are affected by this influx of Vietnamese women.
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Re: Population

Postby barfle » Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:06 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:I've said many times that the only irreplaceable resource on this planet is us. People who view humans as some kind of virus are the saddest, sickest, and most uninformed egalitarian elitists; they are the problem, not the solution.

Homo Sapiens is not an endangered species. Even in China.

I can't help but wonder about all those boys that are going to be looking for love in all the wrong places, since the ratio of mates is so skewed.
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Re: Population

Postby Shapley » Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:16 pm

barfle wrote:I can't help but wonder about all those boys that are going to be looking for love in all the wrong places, since the ratio of mates is so skewed.


"Love will find a way", or lust will, at least. Haggis has already posted about the kidnapping of Vietnamese women to be brides and prostitutes. Many of China's neighbors have an abundance of eligible young ladies. I seem to recall that the Romulus and Rhemus and their followers took care of a similar situation in the legendary days of Rome's beginning by carting off the Sabine women. Seven Brides For Seven Brothers includes a song that seems to indicate that the women weren't really all that upset about it (indeed, the seven brides accepted their fate in much the same manner).

Perhaps it's time for a new Chinese musical: Seven Million Brides For Seven Million Brothers. :)
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Re: Population

Postby Shapley » Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:36 pm

ADAM
Tell ya 'bout them sobbin' women
Who lived in the Roman days.
It seems that they all went swimmin'
While their men was off to graze.
Well, a Roman troop was ridin' by
And saw them in their "me oh my",
So they took 'em all back home to dry.
Least that's what Plutarch says.
Oh yes!
Them a woman was sobbin', sobbin', sobbin'
Fit to be tied.
Ev'ry muscle was throbbin', throbbin'
From that riotous ride.
Oh they cried and kissed and kissed and cried
All over that Roman countryside
So don't forget that when you're takin' a bride.
Sobbin' fit to be tied
From that riotous ride!
They never did return their plunder
The victor gets all the loot.
They carried them home, by thunder,
To rotundas small but cute.
And you've never seens so,
They tell me, such downright domesticity.
With a Roman baby on each knee
Named "Claudius" and "Brute"

SIX BROTHERS
Oh yes!
Them a women was sobbin', sobbin', passin' them nights.

ADAM
While the Romans was goin' out hobbin', nobbin'
Startin' up fights.
They kept occupied by sewin' lots of little old togas
For them tots and sayin' "someday women folk'll have rights."

GIDEON
Passin' all o' them nights.

ADAM
Just sewin'!
While the Romans had fights.

CALEB
"Hey listen to this"
Now when their men folk went to fetch 'em
Them women would not be fetched.
It seems them Romans ketch 'em
That their lady friends stay ketched.

ADAM
Now let this be because it's true,
A lesson to the likes of you,
Treat 'em rough like them there Romans do
Or else they'll think you're tetched.

SIX BROTHERS
Oh yes!
Them a women was sobbin', sobbin',
Sobbin' buckets of tears
On account o' old dobbin',
Dobbin' really rattled their ears.
Oh they acted angry and annoyed

GIDEON
But secretly they was overjoyed

ADAM
You must recall that when corralin' your streets

BROTHERS
Oh, oh, oh, oh them poe little dears.

SIX BROTHERS ADAM
Oh yes
Them a women was sobbin', sobbin', sobbin' Oh yeah
Weepin' a ton Then sobbin' women
Just remember what Robin, Robin, Robin Oh yeah
Hood woulda done. Them sobbin women.
We'll be just like them three merry men
And make 'em all merry once again.

ADAM
And though they'll be a sobbin' for a while

ALL
Oh yes!
We're gonna make them sobbin' women smile!
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Re: Population

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:07 pm

Now, now. Tut tut. You can't name Roman brothers Gideon, and Adam, and Caleb, and suchlike. Really. Giddeus, Atticus, Calibus - that might work... :lol:
>^..^<
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Re: Population

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:46 pm

Plummeting fertility.

“When people got richer, families got smaller; and as families got smaller, people got richer. Now, something similar is happening in developing countries. Fertility is falling and families are shrinking in places— such as Brazil, Indonesia, and even parts of India—that people think of as teeming with children. As our briefing shows, the fertility rate of half the world is now 2.1 or less—the magic number that is consistent with a stable population and is usually called ‘the replacement rate of fertility’. Sometime between 2020 and 2050 the world’s fertility rate will fall below the global replacement rate.”
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Re: Population

Postby dai bread » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:52 pm

Maybe we'll have reason to bless China's investments in Africa after all.

I read a report by Gwynne Dyer, a British journalist of some standing, to the effect that Ethiopia's population had just about doubled since the last major drought, which wasn't all that long ago. If that is so, it's no wonder the aid industry is busy.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: Population

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:52 am

Our own Greek traegdy

What's happening in the developed world today isn't so very hard to understand: The 20th century Bismarckian welfare state has run out of people to stick it to. In America, the feckless insatiable boobs in Washington, Sacramento, Albany and elsewhere are screwing over our kids and grandkids. In Europe, they've reached the next stage in social democratic evolution: There are no kids or grandkids to screw over. The United States has a fertility rate of around 2.1, or just over two kids per couple. Greece has a fertility rate of about 1.3: 10 grandparents have six kids have four grandkids - i.e., the family tree is upside down. Demographers call 1.3 "lowest-low" fertility - the point from which no society has ever recovered. And compared to Spain and Italy, Greece has the least worst fertility rate in Mediterranean Europe.

So you can't borrow against the future because, in the most basic sense, you don't have one. Greeks in the public sector retire at 58, which sounds great. But, when 10 grandparents have four grandchildren, who pays for you to spend the last third of your adult life loafing around?
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Re: Population

Postby piqaboo » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:47 pm

For how long does a society need to be at 1.3 to 'not recover'?
Does that include peace time only, vs mixed peace and war?
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Re: Population

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:25 pm

piqaboo wrote:For how long does a society need to be at 1.3 to 'not recover'?
Does that include peace time only, vs mixed peace and war?


From my reading just reaching it is enough. Most European countries appear to be relying on immigration to keep numbers up. Unfortunately, that's also the same immigrants who are creating a new and potentially dangerous Eurabia. I personally think the tipping point has been reached already and we are entering a new era.
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Re: Population

Postby Shapley » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:26 pm

Greece apparently hasn't learned the lessons of their own history. Despite their military prowess, the Spartans died out because of their horrendous population control. Babies who were not perfect were discarded to die. The men had to live in the barracks until age 30. They were allowed to marry, but only allowed conjugal visits during the dark of the Moon. Being constantly at war left them with severe shortages of virile young men, yet they restricted their re-population. One earthquake destroyed the barracks, wiping out almost an entire generation.

Eventually, they had to forgo foreign campaigns because they could not spare the manpower. Decades of war had left them depleted, slaves outnumbered free citizens four or five to one, despite an open season on the killing of slaves. As slave uprisings became more common, they found the necessity to keep their armies at home. Eventually, they just faded from the Greek scene.

As they saying goes: If you're not growing, you're dying.
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Re: Population

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:01 am

The Atlantic: The End of Men

Polling data on American sex preference is sparse, and does not show a clear preference for girls. But the picture from the doctor’s office unambiguously does. A newer method for sperm selection, called MicroSort, is currently completing Food and Drug Administration clinical trials. The girl requests for that method run at about 75 percent.

Even more unsettling for Ericsson, it has become clear that in choosing the sex of the next generation, he is no longer the boss. “It’s the women who are driving all the decisions,” he says—a change the MicroSort spokespeople I met with also mentioned. At first, Ericsson says, women who called his clinics would apologize and shyly explain that they already had two boys. “Now they just call and [say] outright, ‘I want a girl.’ These mothers look at their lives and think their daughters will have a bright future their mother and grandmother didn’t have, brighter than their sons, even, so why wouldn’t you choose a girl?”



This should make Shos happy
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Re: Population

Postby Shapley » Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:35 pm

Ah! But the Chinese are heavily inclined towards male offspring. Perhaps the next war will be a large-scale rape of the Sabine women scenario, with Chinese men raiding America to carry off the women, who will happily settle for their company...
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Re: Population

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:57 am

Shapley wrote:Ah! But the Chinese are heavily inclined towards male offspring. Perhaps the next war will be a large-scale rape of the Sabine women scenario, with Chinese men raiding America to carry off the women, who will happily settle for their company...


They have been kidnapping women from Vietnam and Cambodia and elsewhere. I found a 1999 WSJ article about the kidnapping of Vietnamese girls so it's not a recent problem.
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Re: Population

Postby Shapley » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:25 am

Haggis@wk wrote:
Shapley wrote:Ah! But the Chinese are heavily inclined towards male offspring. Perhaps the next war will be a large-scale rape of the Sabine women scenario, with Chinese men raiding America to carry off the women, who will happily settle for their company...


They have been kidnapping women from Vietnam and Cambodia and elsewhere. I found a 1999 WSJ article about the kidnapping of Vietnamese girls so it's not a recent problem.


As I recall, Vietnam has no shortage of eligible men. If my history is correct, the Sabine women did not mind the kidnapping by the Romans because their men were always away at war, leaving a shortage.

I recall your link to the article "No Country For Young Men" referring to China's women shortage. I believe the kidnapping was mentioned in the article.

I saw no shortage of women when I was in China, however. They seemed to be abundant. I seem to recall that Chairman Mao offered to send some home with President Nixon during their meeting, claiming that they had too many.
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