Mosque at Ground Zero?

[lliam]

Shap, I've no idea or even care whether they are or not well attended. These people are taking the world over and no one is trying to stop them except for a few who are then branded as being racists. When the Normans invaded England they built their Churches and Castles as a message of victory over the Anglo Saxons. Where I live in the west midlands the area is known as the Black Country because of its industrial past. On a hill not far from my home is a place called Dudley on this hill is a medieval castle, which overlooks the Black Country and can be seen for miles around over the last 5yrs there has been a regular protest against building a mega mosque adjacent to the old castle. Again not far away is a beautiful city called Lichfield the Muslims wanted to build a mosque adjacent to the Cathedral there was an outcry and the people of Lichfield said, "If you build a mosque here we will burn it down" needless to say planning permission was not granted.

[GreatCarouser]

"For the record, I am a supporter of the mosque being built, but only under two conditions. First, that its builders consult the families of the Ground Zero dead, who are the people whose opinion matters most. Second, that the 13-story complex include a museum detailing the events of 9/11 with exhibits explaining the modern abuse of Islamic teachings by extremists and their repudiation by Islam itself." Rabbi Boteach

Here's the full article...
Not sure if I'm 100% behind him here but his point about the families' opinions being paramount is well taken. Good luck getting the followers of the religion of 'submission' to compromise here...

[lliam]

I've just had an invitation to join the cause against building the Mosque on facebook if you guys are interested click on the link below.

http://apps.facebook.com/causes/causes/ ... ?flow=join

[bignaf]

When these people ask for planning permission to build another mosque, the following question should be asked. "How Many More mosques do you want to build"?

We have over 1300+ in the UK and still they want more where I live there is a mosque or temple within a stones throw of each other.

I don't see how the number of mosques or temples is relevant. If the people are living there legally, they should definitely have a right to practice the religion of their choice and to do that they need places of worship. If they need 1300 mosques, they should have them. Regarding the number of temples, they're probably on the decline, since many British Jews are moving to Israel due to antisemitism (mostly Muslim, but also from Christian xenophobes who have been stirred up by the Muslim invasion). Good job!

[lliam]

[ by bignaf ]

I don't see how the number of mosques or temples is relevant. If the people are living there legally, they should definitely have a right to practice the religion of their choice and to do that they need places of worship. If they need 1300 mosques, they should have them. Regarding the number of temples, they're probably on the decline, since many British Jews are moving to Israel due to anti-Semitism (mostly Muslim, but also from Christian xenophobes who have been stirred up by the Muslim invasion). Good job!
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I'd like to wager you don't have any mosques or temples where you live big?

It is indeed relevant if the country in question (ENGLAND) is already over populated plus we have more and more thousands of illegal immigrants coming into the country in the back of trucks. Big, I always thought temples were for Sikhs and Hindus etc and synagogues where for Jews?

[Shapley]

I've always heard 'temple' and synagogue used interchangeably. Jesus drove the moneychangers from the temple, is the way I've always heard. The twelve-year-old Jesus was found by his parents preaching at the temple. I believe our local Jewish house of worship is listed as a temple, although most of us non-Jewish people call it a 'synagogue' when we refer to it.

Perhaps Bignaf or David can explain the difference. Perhaps it's something like the distinction bewteen a Church, a Cathedral, and a Basilica to us Catholics. A Church can be a Cathedral, and either a Church or a Cathedral can be a Basilica.

[lliam]

Shap, you forgot the Chapel.


Apparently there are already hundreds of mosques in N.Y so, why do we want another one.

If anything it should be a huge Cathedral in the name of Christianity. Let’s just suppose for a moment that this comes true, what shall we call this magnificent Cathedral?

[Shapley]

Curiously, there was an Orthodox Church there, destroyed in the attacks, which will not be rebuilt, apparently due to a dispute with the Port Authority. St. Nickolas was the church.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/nyreg ... hurch.html

However, from what I can gather, the mosque property was acquired through outright purchase, with no governmental intervention. St. Nickolas apparently has to acquire more ground, although I'm not sure why they have lost the previous parcel. It does appear, however, that their parcel was quite small.

[lliam]

[Bignaf said] regarding the number of temples, they're probably on the decline, since many British Jews are moving to Israel due to anti-Semitism (mostly Muslim, but also from Christian xenophobes who have been stirred up by the Muslim invasion).
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Big, it is mad mullahs such as Ayatollah Khamenei in Iran who are responsible for much of the hatred and violence perpetrated by self-proclaimed Muslims against the innocent. Today we can witness the undemocratic intolerance of such people in Iran and the violence they are prepared to use against any who try to stand against their corrupt rule.

Something like 70 per cent of the imams, allegedly giving religious instruction to Muslims in British mosques, are foreigners. They come from cultures and attitudes stuck somewhere in the middle ages or earlier, and have no understanding of western societies.


Is it not about time we woke up to the dangerous messages conveyed by these religious fanatics, and their twisted and hateful interpretations of Islamic beliefs? What sort of religion still stone their own people to death? Only last week a couple where stoned to death, it's BARBARIC. Such people have no place in any society.

[Haggis@wk]

Shap, you forgot the Chapel.


Apparently there are already hundreds of mosques in N.Y so, why do we want another one.

If anything it should be a huge Cathedral in the name of Christianity. Let’s just suppose for a moment that this comes true, what shall we call this magnificent Cathedral?

It's always been my understanding that a chapel is a church without a dedicated congregations. Therefore "Wayside Chapel." Most churches on U.S. military bases are also known as chapels.

[Shapley]

I've always understood that a chapel is a specific facility. That is, it is not interchangeable with Church, Cathedral, or Basilica. A Chapel can be none of these. Catholic chapels are usually attached to or part of a larger facility. For instance, most convents, monasteries, and Catholic hospitals have a chapel, as do many schools. Many Navy vessels have chapels, as well.

Oh, I would add that, while a chapel may not be a church, a cathedral, or a basilica; a church, cathedral, or basilica may contain one or more chapels.

[dai bread]

I thought it was a matter of size and splendour. Church, Cathedral, then Basilica, in increasing order of both.

[Shapley]

I thought it was a matter of size and splendour. Church, Cathedral, then Basilica, in increasing order of both.

No, a Church that is a seat to a bishop, archibishop, or cardinal is a Cathedral (from the latin cathedra, meaning 'chair'). A basilica is a church or cathedral that has been recognized for special ceremonial purposes, although the meaning does come from the latin for a large enclosed space. The term is used also for domed churches and cathedrals.

The Cathedral of Notre Dame in Paris is not a basilica, but the Cathedral-Basilica of Notre Dame in Montreal is.

[piqaboo]

And then there's that mosque in Cordoba, Spain, which is so large that they built a cathedral completely inside it:
Pix

[Giant Communist Robot]

It's obvious they have the legal right to build there, but they show a real lack of sensitivity and compassion. What bugs me about this is that even if they do build, they will not see it as a victory for the rights of minorities over the opinion of the majority but as the will of Allah. In other words, not because we live in a democracy but due to the devine plan of Allah.

Years ago I used to hang out at the Islamic Center in Los Angeles on Vermont. I found that when Muslims speak in public they will always take the moderate line, but not in private. It's like they've been coached about what to say. In private I have never been able to get a single Muslim to repudiate extremism and terrorism. What they told me was "what is extremism? It is love of God. Which is better, love of God or love of man?" and so on. I know this is anecdotal, but it is striking that I could not get a single individual to agree that murdering in the name of Allah is wrong.

[Shapley]

And then there's that mosque in Cordoba, Spain, which is so large that they built a cathedral completely inside it:
Pix

Not unlike the manner in which Santa Sophia in Constantinople (Istanbul) was converted into a mosque.

[lliam]

It's obvious they have the legal right to build there, but they show a real lack of sensitivity and compassion. What bugs me about this is that even if they do build, they will not see it as a victory for the rights of minorities over the opinion of the majority but as the will of Allah. In other words, not because we live in a democracy but due to the devine plan of Allah.

Years ago I used to hang out at the Islamic Center in Los Angeles on Vermont. I found that when Muslims speak in public they will always take the moderate line, but not in private. It's like they've been coached about what to say. In private I have never been able to get a single Muslim to repudiate extremism and terrorism. What they told me was "what is extremism? It is love of God. Which is better, love of God or love of man?" and so on. I know this is anecdotal, but it is striking that I could not get a single individual to agree that murdering in the name of Allah is wrong.

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Have you heard this guy G.C? His name is Michael Savage and he's on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK9yOi0V ... r_embedded

It's a bit strong but this guy says it as it is.

[Giant Communist Robot]

After the attack on Pearl Harbor a nearby Shinto shrine was shut down. I think all on Oahu were shut down. Shintoism was the official religion of Japan and revered the Emperor and the military leaders. And Japanese-Americans were denied their Constitutional rights and were shipped off to internment camps. With hindsight, clearly internment was wrong, but shutting down those shrines--where the military leaders of Japan were worshiped as demi-gods--was a sensible idea.

After the fatwa against the United States was issued and 9/11 I see no rational case to allow Mosques to stay open in the U.S. We have been offically identified as the enemy of Islam and likely there is continuous effort to recruit and finance terrorism in our country.

With the Japanese-Americans it was a case of over-reacting. There was no sabotage, no terrorist attacks--nothing. With Islam it is a case of no reaction. We have an organization with one of its stated goals as "Death to America." Thousands of Americans died.

I'd like to see those Mosques shut down and the dangerous Muslims interned until the war on terror is over.

[Haggis@wk]

From the Philly Inquirer:

When Habib Peer closed his Germantown newsstand last year and moved back to Pakistan, his passport made no note of his religion.

Since 1990 he had been a resident and citizen of the United States, where being an Ahmadiyya Muslim is no offense. But in his homeland, Peer’s faith made him a target, his family said.

On Thursday, as he drove with a young nephew through the southern city of Sanghar, two motorbikes approached his car. One of the masked drivers fired a handgun twice through the open window, instantly killing the 60-year-old Peer.

His nephew, 13, survived to describe the assassination. “That’s just how [the boy's] father died,” recalled Mujeeb Chaudhary, Peer’s brother-in-law and a Philadelphia pharmacist.

“It was a targeted killing, only because of his religion

The Ahmadis are an unorthodox Islamic sect who, among other things, do not accept Mohammed as Allah’s final prophet and reject violent jihad. They are brutally persecuted by their fellow Muslims, including in Indonesia (the world’s most populace Muslim country, and — everything being relative — probably the world’s most moderate Muslim country). Just this past spring, 93 Ahmadis were killed in Pakistan when their fellow Muslims bombed some of their mosques.

It would be interesting to ask imam Feisal Rauf whether he really thinks Muslims commit atrocities against the Ahmadis, just as Sunnis and Shiites often slaughter each other, because of American foreign policy, which allegedly humiliates them and makes them “feel the need to conflagrate.”

Is there, instead, just a teeny-weenie chance that they do it because mainstream Islamic doctrine, endorsed by influential clerics like Yusuf Qaradawi (much admired by Rauf for his mastery of sharia), teaches that departures from core Islamic beliefs constitute apostasy, and that the punishment for apostasy is death?

“Religion of Peace™ ” Indeed

[dai bread]

O.K. How do you tell a man's religion when he's driving in a car? If you've picked him out earlier, why not just bump him off then?

These thugs are in it for pleasure. Religion is a peg to hang their hats on and allow them to wring their hands and cry "Persecution!" if they're challenged.

You might have noticed reports recently that similar thugs are still active in Ireland, and are still chanting the IRA's old mantra: "Britain out!"