Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby Shapley » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:42 am

My high-speed rail idea is looking better all the time...
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby jamiebk » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:24 pm

[quote="Selma in Sandy Egg

OTOH, I know where to get radiopaque fabric. I could whip up a camisole and pettipants...

Wonder what the TSA would do about that???[/quote]

grope and molest you as they are doing now.... :curse:
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby piqaboo » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:46 pm

I'd be inclined to pee my pants during the pat-down.
A friend was feeling sorry for the TSA agents who are forced to do the patdowns,
but as these types of jobs self-select, I expect we'll end up w a bunch of gropers who relish the power and the rest of it too.

Small children dont get dental X-rays as a rule, unless things appear to be going wrong.
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby Schmeelkie » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:25 pm

Maybe Amtrak scans your luggage (I don't know), but no other security measures there. Heck, usually the train is underway before they get to tickets - so if you didn't have one, you'd probably still get a ride to the next station. And it does look like NY is going to go through with the high-speed rail Buffalo to Albany (not sure, but probably down to NYC too) - which I'll like as they should then be able to have more than one train available to get us to MIL's in Worcester MA.

Had to present ID and go through scanners getting back onto the cruise ship, but seemingly quicker than airport - no taking off shoes.

Doing more than just going through scanners would probably freak out my kids. They're not happy about going through alone and it can be hard to explain to little ones why all this is necessary without making them scared. And I miss meeting folks at the gate, or being able to sit and have a cup of coffee with a departing friend/family member - at least in Rochester all the food places are on the other side of security. Actually, I think there is one pre-security... Anyway, with all this amped up security - has any terrorist-to-be ever been caught? Or are they going to rationalize and say because of security, no terrorist will try. Arg. I want to be safe, but this is getting rediculous...
"Up plus down equals flat" Pumpkin, 3 yrs, 10 mo, July '07
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby Shapley » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:51 pm

We took Amtrak last weekend. You're told to carry a photo ID when you purchase the tickets, but they didn't ask for one at the station. They didn't scan our luggage, even in Chicago. We arrived, boarded, and departed. They collected the tickets, as you note, after we were underway.
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby jamiebk » Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:24 pm

Enough is enough......Americans need to take a unified stand on this. This isn't "security"...it's a total invasion of rights, dignity, privacy and crosses the line into criminal assault:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40278427/ns/us_news/

TSA forces cancer survivor to show prosthetic breast

By Suzanne Choney
msnbc.com msnbc.com
updated 43 minutes ago 2010-11-19T22:31:32

A longtime Charlotte, N.C., flight attendant and cancer survivor told a local television station that she was forced to show her prosthetic breast during a pat-down.

Cathy Bossi, who works for U.S. Airways, said she received the pat-down after declining to do the full-body scan because of radiation concerns.

The TSA screener "put her full hand on my breast and said, 'What is this?' " Bossi told the station. "And I said, 'It's my prosthesis because I've had breast cancer.' And she said, 'Well, you'll need to show me that.' "

Bossi said she removed the prosthetic from her bra. She did not take the name of the agent, she said, "because it was just so horrific of an experience, I couldn't believe someone had done that to me. I'm a flight attendant. I was just trying to get to work."

For Americans who wear prosthetics — either because they are cancer survivors or have lost a limb — or who have undergone hip replacements or have a pacemaker, the humiliation of the TSA's new security procedures — choosing between a body scan or body search — is even worse.

Musa Mayer has worn a breast prosthesis for 21 years since her mastectomy and is used to the alarms it sets off at airport security. But nothing prepared her for the "invasive and embarrassing" experience of being patted down, poked and examined recently while passing through airport security at Dulles International Airport in Washington, D.C.

"I asked the supervisor if she realized that there are 3 million women who have had breast cancer in the U.S., many of whom wear breast prostheses. Will each of us now have to undergo this humiliating, time-consuming routine every time we pass through one of these new body scanners?" she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com.

'I was so humiliated' Marlene McCarthy of Rhode Island said she went through the body scanner and was told by a TSA agent to step aside. In "full view of everyone," McCarthy said in an e-mail, the agent "immediately put the back of her hand on my right side chest and I explained I wore a prosthesis.

"Then, she put her full hands ... one on top and one on the bottom of my 'breast' and moved the prosthesis left, right, up, down and said 'OK.' I was so humiliated.

"I went to the desk area and complained," McCarthy wrote. "The woman there was very nice and I asked her if the training included an understanding of how prosthetics are captured on the scanner and told her the pat-down is embarrassing. She said, 'We have never even had that discussion and I do the training for the TSA employees here, following the standard manual provided.' She said she will bring it up at their next meeting."

If she has to go through the scanner again, McCarthy said, "I am determined to put the prosthesis in the gray bucket," provided to travelers at the security check-ins for items such as jewelry.

"Let the TSA scanners be embarrassed .... not me anymore!" she wrote.

Sharon Kiss, 66, has a pacemaker, but also has to fly often for her work.

"During a recent enhanced pat-down, a screener cupped my breasts and felt my genitals," she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com "To 'clear my waistband' she put her hands down my pants and groped for the waistband of my underwear.

"I expressed humiliation and was told 'You have the choice not to fly.' "

The remark infuriated Kiss, who lives in Mendocino, Calif. "Extrapolate this to we should not provide curb cuts and ramps for people confined to wheelchairs because they can choose to stay home ... This a violation of civil rights. And because I have a disability, I should not be subjected to what is government-sanctioned sexual assault in order to board a plane."

No planned changes to security
So far, the government is not letting up on the enhanced screening program. TSA administrator John Pistole said this week at a Congressional hearing on the matter that "reasonable people can disagree" on how to properly balance safety at the nation's airports, but that the new security measures are necessary because of intelligence on latest attack methods that might be used by terrorists.

Gail Mengel, of Blue Springs, Mo., is used to being patted down; she had a hip replacement five years ago.

"I admit that I was relieved when I flew last week and was able to spend a few seconds in front of the X-ray screen in Seattle and Denver," she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com. "I have heard medical experts say the level of radiation will not hurt us. And frankly I was happy to realize I won't have my body touched, patted and rubbed anymore.

"Unfortunately last weekend, I arrived at the New Orleans airport and learned that airport staff (was) still being trained in using the X-ray machine. Because my hip replacement sets off the security buzzer, I was faced with the new regulations."

While she is "used to" being patted down, "this experience was certainly much more personal, uncomfortable and embarrassing," she said. "Every part of my body was touched. I do not want to be harmed by radiation, but the experience was painless and quick compared to what I have faced over the last five years. I support security measures but I also hope we can be assured of safe procedures."

One man, from Nashville, wrote in an e-mail that "as a handicapped person, I am sick and tired of being 'raped' at the security line. I lose my crutches and leg orthotics to be 'nuked' by the X-ray machine. Then manhandled by the pat-down, followed by chemical swabbing for 'possible explosives.' ...Enough is enough."

Said Mayer, the longtime breast cancer survivor: "I am outraged that I will now be forced to show my prosthesis to strangers, remove it and put in the X-ray bin for screening, or not to wear it at all whenever I fly. To me, this seems unfairly discriminatory and embarrassing for me, and for all breast cancer survivors."
Jamie

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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:29 am

Jamie,
I coldn't agree more. This is political correctness (do we really think that terrorist are distributed through our demographic?) gone amuck and I hope, hope the traveling public is finally incensed enough to fight back. I do know that American Airlines is complaining to various congressmen/women that they are losing significant revenue as people decide not to travel. I turned down a contract last month because I refuse to fly and they wouldn't wait for me to get to the location by car. (it was in New York, a bit beyond a one day drive) I'm dreading next May when we return to England but cheer myself with the fact I'll only have to go through American security once leaving Dallas. Every other leg is through Canada or England coming or going.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby dai bread » Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:18 pm

I suspect a desire for power is more prominent in the TSA than political correctness. The people who run the TSA must be hugging themselves for joy knowing how they've got so many people jumping through hoops. Even Haggis, who has changed his behaviour to suit.

Does anyone know what the front-line staff turnover rate is in the TSA?
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby Schmeelkie » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:50 pm

Just to be a bit of the devil's advocate...
By the 100th person you've patted down in a day, how much of a thrill does that give you? I didn't like it much, but it didn't bother me when the mammography tech moved my breasts around for the mammogram. She probably doesn't even think about it anymore. Yes, she's a professional, etc.... I just doubt the TSA folks have the time to oogle or overfeel with thousands of folks coming through their lines...

But I do think this is overdoing it and really going too far. I hope by the time I have to fly again (maybe next summer), they've figured out a better way. Not thrilled about the idea of putting my kids through this - do kids get the full body scan or pat-down - anyone know? I would hope they wouldn't, but I could see the TSA saying that terrorist parents could put the materials on their kids if they were exempt....but what's the likelihood of that, really!!
"Up plus down equals flat" Pumpkin, 3 yrs, 10 mo, July '07
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby dai bread » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:58 pm

You're right about the effect of quantity on TSA (and other) security personnel. That's why I have no problem with having to produce photo ID from time to time. So my photo's in someone's data bank. Big deal. So are thousands of others and if someone wants to trawl for mine, good luck to them. I hope they think it's worth the effort.

But I'm afraid terrorist parents will use their children if necessary. Children have been abused in that way on many occasions before now, and in many places besides airports. Vietnam, for instance, African rebellions, and other places where they use child "soldiers".
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby piqaboo » Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:50 pm

Yup, anyone willing to sit on a plane and blow it up will likely not hesitate to
a) have an amputation and use their new prosthesis as a bombcase
b) use their kids.
There was that guy this summer in ?Afghanistan, who invited his multiple wives and kids over, when he knew he'd been targeted.

On the other hand, driving us all to this level of extreme behaviour, is it not a sort of victory for them?

Also, the med tech for the mammogram has a lot of time in training, sort of screening them out as impulse kooks (yes, some kooks still get thru, but the hours of schooling tend to limit it)
What does it take to get accepted as a TSA employee? Who's to say they wont start selecting for pedophiles and other unpleasant types, by the nature of the job?

Lastly, even if we're stuck w it forever, they need more training. Breast pads, ostomy bags etc seem to throw them for a loop.
Wonder how they handle diapers?
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby dai bread » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:03 pm

piqaboo wrote:...Wonder how they handle diapers?


With good plastic gloves, I would think.
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby piqaboo » Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:48 pm

Anyone who will be in the area 22-Dec, pm me please, 'kay? Thanks
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:08 pm

The theory that autism is caused by vaccinations has been propagated by celebrities and seized on by desperate parents, but it is a fraud and a hoax. The sad story has been laid out in a British medical journal:

A now-retracted British study that linked autism to childhood vaccines was an "elaborate fraud" that has done long-lasting damage to public health, a leading medical publication reported Wednesday.
An investigation published by the British medical journal BMJ concludes the study's author, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, misrepresented or altered the medical histories of all 12 of the patients whose cases formed the basis of the 1998 study -- and that there was "no doubt" Wakefield was responsible.

"It's one thing to have a bad study, a study full of error, and for the authors then to admit that they made errors," Fiona Godlee, BMJ's editor-in-chief, told CNN. "But in this case, we have a very different picture of what seems to be a deliberate attempt to create an impression that there was a link by falsifying the data."
Britain stripped Wakefield of his medical license in May.


There is a lot of blame to go around here; the media deserve some of it for repeating fraudulent claims uncritically. But the genesis of the hoax had a straightforward motive: money. Plaintiffs' lawyers who hoped to make a fortune by suing the manufacturers of vaccines funded the fraudulent research.

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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby jamiebk » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:33 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:The theory that autism is caused by vaccinations has been propagated by celebrities and seized on by desperate parents, but it is a fraud and a hoax. The sad story has been laid out in a British medical journal:

A now-retracted British study that linked autism to childhood vaccines was an "elaborate fraud" that has done long-lasting damage to public health, a leading medical publication reported Wednesday.
An investigation published by the British medical journal BMJ concludes the study's author, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, misrepresented or altered the medical histories of all 12 of the patients whose cases formed the basis of the 1998 study -- and that there was "no doubt" Wakefield was responsible.

"It's one thing to have a bad study, a study full of error, and for the authors then to admit that they made errors," Fiona Godlee, BMJ's editor-in-chief, told CNN. "But in this case, we have a very different picture of what seems to be a deliberate attempt to create an impression that there was a link by falsifying the data."
Britain stripped Wakefield of his medical license in May.


There is a lot of blame to go around here; the media deserve some of it for repeating fraudulent claims uncritically. But the genesis of the hoax had a straightforward motive: money. Plaintiffs' lawyers who hoped to make a fortune by suing the manufacturers of vaccines funded the fraudulent research.

hot tar, feathers, poles


They deserve to be tried for murder after so many parents opted out of vaccinations for their kids (who, some of which, subsequently got sick and died). It is a crime and at least these people should be in jail...and perhaps innoculated with a good dose of smallpox.
Jamie

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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:06 pm

jamiebk wrote: ...and perhaps innoculated with a good dose of smallpox.



It is truly scary how often you utter a phrase with which I am so completely in agreement with.
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:35 am

Dudes! Really!

It would be poetic justice to give 'em smallpox but they might spread it. Have a heart. Virii are contagious! (Sez the lady who got a whooping cough shot so she could handle newborn grandchild...)
>^..^<
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:14 pm

Selma in Sandy Eggo wrote:Dudes! Really!

It would be poetic justice to give 'em smallpox but they might spread it. Have a heart. Virii are contagious! (Sez the lady who got a whooping cough shot so she could handle newborn grandchild...)


Point taken, okay, how about the clap? No, wait...

Uh.....measles? darn, no

Athlete's foot? no, they might go to the gym

Okay, bad breath? No, that’d just offend others

Alright final offer, persistent post nasal drip
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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby jamiebk » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:45 pm

OK then...in the poetic justice department I will settle for mumps. And hopefully it will settle in their testicles.
Jamie

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Re: Altoid & Other Cuties' Thread

Postby dai bread » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:33 pm

Perfect! :rofl:
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