Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

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Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:41 pm

I’ve decided to start a new thread that addresses what I believe will be the singular issue of the 2012 election; Repeal and Replace Obamacare.

Charles Krauthammer captured the spirit of the debate that is looming last night:

I don’t think Democrats are delighted to engage in this debate. If there was a lesson from the midterm elections, it was that if you’re on the wrong side of health-care reform — i.e., if you supported it — and you weren’t in a very safe Democratic district, you had a problem on your hands.

There’s a reason that Democrats wanted to end debate in June of ’09 and November of ’09 and March of ’10. They wanted it behind them. And they had the illusion that once it had occurred and it was law, it would be dead as an issue.

The Republicans want to pass this [repeal] and they should as soon as possible, meaning next week, to set the predicate for the 2012 election. Health-care reform is not an incidental piece of symbolism, it’s a sixth of the U.S. economy, and it’s probably the one area where the government meets the individual at the most intimate level

And it [Obamacare] is extremely unpopular. One of the reasons that Clinton won reelection in ’96 after his debacle in the midterms was because Hillarycare had failed, so he didn’t have the millstone around him in the run-up to his reelection.

For Obama unfortunately, at least from a political perspective, it [his health-care reform] passed, which means he has to defend it and Democrats have to defend it for another two years. It is increasingly unpopular and it is exactly the kind of debate [Republicans] want to have — in and of itself, and because it’s a symbol of this huge expansion of government that Democrats have undertaken.


Depending on which poll you look at, as much as 60% of Americans want this repealed but even the most conservative poll show that a majority of Americans are in favor of repeal. The town hall meetings next summer are going to be interesting street theater.

As for replace, I think some folks in Congress (most notably Paul Ryan) and some outside (like Jim Capretta and Tom Miller—for instance here and here) have laid out the shape of that alternative.

IMHO, this monstrous assault on Americans cannot be allowed to go into full implementation

If you have any opposing views, post them here
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby analog » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:07 pm

I think it should be repealed in total.

I wrote both my senators telling them "don't support this, it reeks of graft corruption and cronyism and we want no part of it. Go back and do this right. Take out the bribes and do not succumb to schedule pressure."

My friends all signed it.
We introduced ourselves as the "Ozark Acres Cultural Society" of Williford Arkansas..
We explained that while our usual interests went not far beyond pickup trucks, gunshows and Fox News hemlines, we felt this legislative skullduggery was important in that it further eroded our confidence in their personal integrity and their suitability as our representatives.

Blanche Lincoln responded with a nice assortment of platitudes.
Now i'm working on her "We told you so" letter.

I actually read the blasted bill, at least one version of it. Last four hundred pages are giving stuff to the American Indians. Sounds noble but is that the place for it?

Imho we should support Mike Huckabee's petition drive. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17hwDVymJhU

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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:23 pm

CBO Says Repealing ObamaCare Would Reduce Net Spending by $540 Billion.

Well there’s a turnaround!!!


In 2010, the Democrats passed ObamaCare by a 7 vote margin. In 2011, the Republicans passed the bill to repeal ObamaCare with a 55 vote margin.

In each case, one side of the vote was bi-partisan. In both cases, the bi-partisan vote was against ObamaCare.

Once Again… Democrats were the “Party of No” on yet another popular vote. :rofl:
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:23 am

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:31 am

Repeal passes by much larger margin than ObamaCare did. Obamacare passed last year by only seven votes.

ObamaCare passed after months of debate, back room deals, tricks, obfuscation, intense arm-twisting and much violent rhetoric stoked against its opponents by nearly every elected Democrat in the country.

The repeal bill passed with zero fanfare, no tricks, no mass demonstrations against the bill, no popular uprisings against repeal, no town halls that I know of, no giant puppets and no homemade posters.

The silence is deafening. I hope the Senate will muster the fortitude to follow suit.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby jamiebk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:21 am

Haggis@wk wrote:The repeal bill passed with zero fanfare, no tricks, no mass demonstrations against the bill, no popular uprisings against repeal, no town halls that I know of, no giant puppets and no homemade posters.

The silence is deafening.


Largely because everyone knows that the "repeal" is just a jesture with no chance of survival.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:01 pm

jamiebk wrote:
Haggis@wk wrote:The repeal bill passed with zero fanfare, no tricks, no mass demonstrations against the bill, no popular uprisings against repeal, no town halls that I know of, no giant puppets and no homemade posters.

The silence is deafening.


Largely because everyone knows that the "repeal" is just a jesture with no chance of survival.



Wanna bet that it won't be repealed? Name a stake you're comfortable with and I'll take it. I'm confident it will but it might not happen until 2014 or when we get a Republican president. 60% of Americans want it repealed; I think it will be the singular issue in 2012 for the House, Senate and President races and I believe the Democrats are already afraid for their jobs after 2012. This is an issue that the Republicans are willing to take up and with a majority of Americans behind them before the horrible parts of it kicks in, seems to be a good move. I'm also confident that as it gradually takes hold of our lives it will become even more unpopular.

And don't think defeat in the Senate is a sure thing, 23 Senators are up for re-election in 2012 and many are in states that majorities of people want to repeal this monstrosity. Harry Reid's been saying that the House shouldn't bother since it will be defeated in the Senate. If he was that confident of his votes why didn't he vote against it before the House did?

UPDATE:

Reid won't let it come up for a vote in the Senate; courage in Democracy.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:45 pm




There are now 26 states suing the Obama administration, along with two individual plaintiffs and the National Federation of Independent Business. This means that a majority of state governments are fighting the federal government. If not unprecedented, it’s certainly a rarity. It’s also powerful testimony that most Americans — and their elected leaders in state government — feel the administration’s approach to health care is completely wrong-headed.

The change in political control of numerous states — like the complete takeover of state government by Republicans in Wisconsin — has made an obvious difference in the fight to overturn Obamacare.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby jamiebk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:50 pm

careful what you wish for....you just might get it. along with more unaccceptable behavior from insurers...lifetime caps, pre-existing conditions, unfounded policy cancellations, unaffordability...and the list goes on. Until the Republicans offer up something better, I don't support a repeal. What are you offering?
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:39 pm

What are you offering?


Haggis@wk wrote: As for replace, I think some folks in Congress (most notably Paul Ryan) and some outside (like Jim Capretta and Tom Miller—for instance here and here) have laid out the shape of that alternative.


pre-existing conditions


HHS’s own data show that less than 1% of Americans have ever been denied coveragefor any reason, including fraud (which is usually the reason). That’s just one of the reasons that only 8,000 Americans have applied for the vaunted new risk pools.

ObamaCare is an awfully big hammer to resolve a very small problem.

I'll even predict as you become more familiar with it's effects on you and yours you'll become at least a little more ambivalent if not opposed.
Last edited by Haggis@wk on Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:54 pm

I'm not well informed about this, but I'm wondering where the government gets the constitutional authority to force us to buy something?
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby jamiebk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:12 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:I'll even predict as you become more familiar with it's effects on you and yours you'll become at least a little more ambivalent if not opposed.

to the contrary...
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:48 pm

I'll even predict as you become more familiar with it's effects on you and yours you'll become at least a little more ambivalent if not opposed.


Since the beginning I've been predicting costs will not be much less if any and coverage will shrink, if not immediately then later. It isn't pretty. Now, excuse me while I go sign up for my neighborhood death panel.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby piqaboo » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:52 pm

sent by my father - the reason haggis cant quite consign California to the depths:
The Ghost of Thanksgiving Yet to Come

"Winston, come into the dining room, it's time to eat," Julia yelled to her husband. "In a minute, honey, it's a tie score," he answered. Actually Winston wasn't very interested in the traditional holiday football game between Detroit and Washington . Ever since the government passed the Civility in Sports Statute of 2017, outlawing tackle football for its "unseemly violence" and the "bad example it sets for the rest of the world,"
Winston was far less of a football fan than he used to be. Two-hand touch wasn't nearly as exciting.

Yet it wasn't the game that Winston was uninterested in. It was more the thought of eating another Tofu Turkey. Even though it was the best type of Veggie Meat available after the government revised the American Anti-Obesity Act of 2018, adding fowl to the list of federally-forbidden foods, (which already included potatoes, cranberry sauce and mince-meat pie), it wasn't anything like real turkey. And ever since the government officially changed the name of "Thanksgiving Day" to "A National Day of Atonement" in 2020 to officially acknowledge the Pilgrims' historically brutal treatment of Native Americans, the holiday had lost a lot of its luster.

Eating in the dining room was also a bit daunting. The unearthly gleam of government-mandated fluorescent light bulbs made the Tofu Turkey look even weirder than it actually was, and the room was always cold. Ever since Congress passed the Power Conservation Act of 2016, mandating all thermostats-which were monitored and controlled by the electric company-be kept at 68 degrees, every room on the north side of the house was barely tolerable throughout the entire winter.

Still, it was good getting together with family. Or at least most of the family. Winston missed his mother, who passed on in October, when she had used up her legal allotment of live-saving medical treatment. He had had many heated conversations with the Regional Health Consortium, spawned when the private insurance market finally went bankrupt, and everyone was forced into the government health care program. And though he demanded she be kept on her treatment, it was a futile effort. "The RHC's resources are limited,"
explained the government bureaucrat Winston spoke with on the phone. "Your mother received all the benefits to which she was entitled. I'm sorry for your loss."

Ed couldn't make it either. He had forgotten to plug in his electric car last night, the only kind available after the Anti-Fossil Fuel Bill of 2021 outlawed the use of the combustion engines-for everyone but government officials. The fifty mile round trip was about ten miles too far, and Ed didn't want to spend a frosty night on the road somewhere between here and there.

Thankfully, Winston's brother, John, and his wife were flying in. Winston made sure that the dining room chairs had extra cushions for the occasion. No one complained more than John about the pain of sitting down so soon after the government-mandated cavity searches at airports, which severely aggravated his hemorrhoids. Ever since a terrorist successfully smuggled a cavity bomb onto a jetliner, the TSA told Americans the added "inconvenience" was an "absolute necessity" in order to stay "one step ahead of the terrorists."
Winston's own body had grown accustomed to such probing ever since the government expanded their scope to just about anywhere a crowd gathered, via Anti-Profiling Act of 2022. That law made it a crime to single out any group or individual for "unequal scrutiny," even when probable cause was involved. Thus, cavity searches at malls, train stations, bus depots, etc., etc., had become almost routine. Almost.

The Supreme Court is reviewing the statute, but most Americans expect a Court composed of six progressives and three conservatives to leave the law intact. "A living Constitution is extremely flexible," said the Court's eldest member, Elena Kagan. " Europe has had laws like this one for years. We should learn from their example," she added.

Winston's thoughts turned to his own children. He got along fairly well with his 12-year-old daughter, Brittany, mostly because she ignored him. Winston had long ago surrendered to the idea that she could text anyone at any time, even during Atonement Dinner. Their only real confrontation had occurred when he limited her to 50,000 texts a month, explaining that was all he could afford. She whined for a week, but got over it.

His 16-year-old son, Jason, was another matter altogether. Perhaps it was the constant bombarding he got in public school that global warming, the bird flu, terrorism or any of a number of other calamities were "just around the corner," but Jason had developed a kind of nihilistic attitude that ranged between simmering surliness and outright hostility. It didn't help that Jason had reported his father to the police for smoking a cigarette in the house, an act made criminal by the Smoking Control Statute of 2018, which outlawed smoking anywhere within 500 feet of another human being. Winston paid the $5000 fine, which might have been considered excessive before the American dollar became virtually worthless as a result of QE13. The latest round of quantitative easing the federal government initiated was, once again, to "spur economic growth." This time they promised to push unemployment below its years-long rate of 18%, but Winston was not particularly hopeful.

Yet the family had a lot for which to be thankful, Winston thought, before remembering it was a Day of Atonement. At least he had his memories. He felt a twinge of sadness when he realized his children would never know what life was like in the Good Old Days, long before government promises to make life "fair for everyone" realized their full potential. Winston, like so many of his fellow Americans, never realized how much things could change when they didn't happen all at once, but little by little, so people could get used to them.

He wondered what might have happened if the public had stood up while there was still time, maybe back around 2011, when all the real nonsense began. "Maybe we wouldn't be where we are today if we'd just said 'enough is enough'
when we had the chance," he thought.

Maybe so, Winston. Maybe so.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:20 pm

1. I love your father in a Rooster Cogburnish way and

2. Pardon me while I assume the full fetal position and go into catatonic shock... :rofl:
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:56 pm

The Energy and Commerce subcommittees have launched a probe into the 222 waivers granted by the Obama administration from ObamaCare insurance coverage mandates:
One day after the House voted to repeal Obamacare, some lawmakers are turning their attention toward the bureaucracy created by the bill. Reps. Fred Upton, chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee, and Cliff Stearns, chairman of the Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee, are investigating the new Center for Consumer Information and Insurance Oversight (CCIIO).
On Thursday, Upton and Stearns sent CCIIO director Jay Angoff a letter with questions about the office’s structure, authority and recent decision to grant waivers throughout several industries, exempting companies from complying with the bill’s requirements.

“Most troubling is that your office is currently responsible for deciding who does not have to comply with the massive new regulations imposed by the PPACA [Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act],” said the letter. “Currently your office has approved waivers from the PPACA’s annual limits requirements for 222 applicants.”


According to the letter, Angloff told Rep. Michael Burgess that the administration had also denied some waiver requests, but apparently didn’t elaborate on who got denied and why. Upton and Stearns want an explanation of the processes and requirements for waivers from the PPACA. They are also likely looking at denied and approved waivers to determine whether there is a fair and objective process, or if political considerations went into granting the explosion of waivers. There’s already evidence that some mighty big Democrat donors got waivers.

For instance, the Service Employees Benefit Fund, which insures a total of 12,000 SEIU health care workers in upstate New York, secured its Obamacare exemption in October. The Local 25 SEIU Welfare Fund in Chicago also nabbed a waiver for 31,000 of its enrollees. SEIU, of course, was one of Obamacare's loudest and biggest spending proponents. The waivers come on top of the massive sweetheart deal that SEIU and other unions cut with the Obama administration to exempt them from the health care mandate's onerous "Cadillac tax" on high-cost health care plans until 2018.

This points out ObamaCare’s absurd level of ambiguity. The law is filled with the phrase “The Secretary shall determine” where regulation is mandated by Congress.

The law is so ambiguous that not even the White House knows how it will get implemented, let alone the providers, insurers, and consumers of medical care. Employers have no real idea what costs will now go into hiring, which is one reason (among many) that businesses have grown reluctant to add staff.

Even apart from the practical ambiguity in ObamaCare, the new system damages the principal of the rule of law. Instead of creating the regulations explicitly so that Americans could understand the costs of compliance, Congress punted most of the regulatory duties to unelected bureaucrats in the executive branch. The waivers that immediately resulted show that rather than following a rule of law, Americans must now follow a rule of bureaucratic whim.

ObamaCare is a demonstration that the 111th Session of Congress utterly abdicated its duty in favor of political expediency. If regulating one-sixth of the national economy was too complicated for Congress to do with specific laws that eliminated ambiguity, then Congress shouldn’t have taken on the task in the first place.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:05 pm

jamiebk wrote:
Haggis@wk wrote:I'll even predict as you become more familiar with it's effects on you and yours you'll become at least a little more ambivalent if not opposed.

to the contrary...


Then you'll find yourself more and more in the minority. More Americans oppose it than approve it, now 27 states are fighting the government. Democrat politicians who support ObamaCare will be on the wrong side of history and many out of work.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:53 pm

Giant Communist Robot wrote:I'm not well informed about this, but I'm wondering where the government gets the constitutional authority to force us to buy something?


That's what the judge in the Florida case asked the Govt. lawyers. If the Govt. can force us to buy insurance under the commerce clause is there anything it can't force to buy?

The lawyers didn't have a good answer.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:51 pm

This is for Shapley and other small businesses people.

A client approached me today and asked if he could pay me in cash this year rather than the usual 1099. Beginning this year anytime a vendor/small business pays $600 for goods or services a 1099 must be prepared. He used to wait until the end of the year and then send one 1099 for the year. My immediate thought was to refuse (because even I try to obey all laws including the stupid ones) but now I feel like I'm caught in quandary. If I accept the cash and then report it as income won't that keep at least me square with the law?

Inputs are sought please.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Shapley » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:13 am

As I understand it, it'll keep you square with the law, but could put you in a bind if they come asking for the income source. My understanding is that doesn't happen often. The 1099 requirement is his, not yours, to comply with. Your responsibility is to report your income.

Your accountant can better advise you. From my point of view, it would be little different than taking a bunch of small jobs, for which cash payment would not be unexpected.
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