Egypt

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Re: Egypt

Postby Marye » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:51 pm

Don't know what you mean by the Obama crack. You don't have to explain, either Shapley, thanks. :roll: I am Canadian and won't get it. :D

Interesting reading on Dalia Ziada's blog -- http://daliaziada.blogspot.com/

The most encouraging feature of the current upheaval is the massive participation of women; not only the young educated women who uses the internet but also the grassroots uneducated older women from rural cities. This is a proof that the protests that were initially driven by Egyptian internet users is turning perfectly into a real on-ground upheaval composed of Egyptians from different age groups and social backgrounds and that is exactly the reason why the protests are so strong and persistent so far.
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Re: Egypt

Postby Shapley » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:57 pm

Marye Wrote:

"I am Canadian and won't get it."

I can type it slowly... ;)
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
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Re: Egypt

Postby Marye » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:06 pm

So I check Twitter for revolutionary tweets about Egypt and then check trending topics... in Canada, United States and then Worldwide. The one topic trending everywhere in the world is .......Jerry Sloan.

Huh?

I guess since Mubarak won't go away Jerry Sloan's goodbye is good too.
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Re: Egypt

Postby jamiebk » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:04 pm

OK so now the latest is that he's NOT leaving.

Mubarak refuses to step down; rage follows

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41506482/ns ... tn_africa/
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Re: Egypt

Postby Trumpetmaster » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:07 am

Marye wrote:So I check Twitter for revolutionary tweets about Egypt and then check trending topics... in Canada, United States and then Worldwide. The one topic trending everywhere in the world is .......Jerry Sloan.

Huh?

I guess since Mubarak won't go away Jerry Sloan's goodbye is good too.



I remember watching Jerry Sloan play against the NY Knicks in the mid to late sixties.....
He was a very good player!

My age is showing :roll: :wink:
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Re: Egypt

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:37 am

I can't confirm this although I'm trying to find proof but it sounds too good not to mention in the context of what is happening in the Middle east in general and Egypt in particular, especially in the discussion of the influence wielded by the Muslim Brotherhood by implication.

A local talk show host (and he gave a website but I missed it) commented on a women's college in Cairo and that he had looked at photos of the graduating classes beginning in the early 50's up until today. He said the photos in the 50's and 60’s looked like a young ladies' finishing school in the U.S., poodle skirts, sweaters, blouses and Donna Reed hairdos and remained that way until the late 70's and 80's when veils and burkas began showing up. The last few years, according to him, the graduating class looks like a class of ninjas. The implication that the pressure on families either via threats of violence or other pressure are forcing people into behavior they might not normally embrace.

That kind of influence has spread to Europe with more and more non-Muslim women wearing some kind of face covering to avoid harassment by Muslim youths.

It would seem that some kind of societal pressure (the bad kind) has taken hold in more than just the Middle East.
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Re: Egypt

Postby Shapley » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:17 pm

Apparently, it's now official

Mubarak resigns
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Re: Egypt

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:27 pm

Obama Intelligence Official Prepared For Congressional Testimony On Egypt…By Watching CNN. Why do we spend those billions on intelligence, again?

Lucky for Mr. Panetta, and thanks to James Clapper, this actually wasn’t the stupidest thing an Obama administration official did yesterday.
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Re: Egypt

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:48 pm

Investor's Business Daily editorial

Romantics in Western media expect "democracy" to flower from the anti-Mubarak rioting in Cairo. But polling shows Egyptians actually seek strict Islamic rule.

According to a major survey conducted last year by the Pew Research Center, adults in Egypt don't crave Western-style democracy, as pundits have blithely trumpeted throughout coverage of the unrest.

Far from it, the vast majority of them want a larger role for Islam in government. This includes making barbaric punishments, such as stoning adulterers and executing apostates, the law of their country. With the ouster of their secular, pro-American leader, they may get their wish.

Among highlights from the Pew poll:

• 49% of Egyptians say Islam plays only a "small role" in public affairs under President Hosni Mubarak, while 95% prefer the religion play a "large role in politics."

• 84% favor the death penalty for people who leave the Muslim faith.

• 82% support stoning adulterers.

• 77% think thieves should have their hands cut off.

• 54% support a law segregating women from men in the workplace.

• 54% believe suicide bombings that kill civilians can be justified.

• Nearly half support the terrorist group Hamas.

• 30% have a favorable opinion of Hezbollah.

• 20% maintain positive views of al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden.

• 82% of Egyptians dislike the U.S. — the highest unfavorable rating among the 18 Muslim nations Pew surveyed.

This empirical evidence refutes the sympathetic narrative broadcast as a continuous loop in the media over the past fortnight. Even after getting beat up by anti-American mobs, CNN's Anderson Cooper portrayed rioters as largely secular yuppies yearning for modernity and the triumph of human rights over martial law.

He and other media elite have it exactly backwards: Egyptians are revolting against Western-style democracy. The Pew poll reveals they do not, in fact, value our principles of individual freedoms, human rights and separation of religion and state.

It is plain they do not want what we want. They want an Islamic theocracy.

And it's highly irresponsible for pundits to assume they want what we do. This is serious business, and we need to deal with facts and reality on the ground and not project our values to make ourselves feel good. The media fatuously whipped up support for a "revolution" at odds with our values and interests.

Now, with a U.S. ally expected to step down, the damage may already be done. The well-organized Muslim Brotherhood, previously outlawed by Mubarak, is in the best position to take advantage of the prevailing sentiment recorded by Pew.
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Re: Egypt

Postby Marye » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:53 pm

Shapley wrote:Apparently, it's now official

Mubarak resigns


Pandemonium ensues.
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Re: Egypt

Postby Shapley » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:04 pm

Marye wrote:Pandemonium ensues.


Unhappy we were with our lot in life
thus, seizing the tools of our trade,
we called for change, for an end to our strife
as we marched through the streets in endless parade.

Our voices were neither unheard nor unheeded,
ours was the struggle of the whole human race.
The dictator, defeated, from power seceded,
and a new tyrant was chosen to take his place.



...Let us hope the Egyptians fare better than most.
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Re: Egypt

Postby Marye » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:10 pm

Nice poem Shap 8)

and a new tyrant was chosen to take his place.

Happens all the time in a democracy. :wink:
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Re: Egypt

Postby Shapley » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:16 pm

Or, as Pete Townshend wrote it:

"Yeah! Meet the new boss! Same as the old boss."

Won't get fooled again
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Re: Egypt

Postby dai bread » Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:13 pm

Well, Mubarak has gone and the army rules. At least there'll be order in the meantime. Fingers crossed that the army does the right thing and moves to civilian rule as soon as it can find a ruler. A parliamentary democracy? Wouldn't that be a surprise.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: Egypt

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:20 pm

dai bread wrote:A parliamentary democracy? Wouldn't that be a surprise.


49% of Egyptians say Islam plays only a "small role" in public affairs under President Hosni Mubarak, while 95% prefer the religion play a "large role in politics."


I fear "surprised" is the least adjective that can be applied here. The "good" (if that's the right word) is that the Army is tougher on the Muslim Brotherhood than the civilian government was. The bad news is that if the military plays to form, then they will be reluctant to release powe.
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Re: Egypt

Postby piqaboo » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:54 pm

Shapley wrote:
piqaboo wrote:We could rebuild the Goat Canyon Trestle (and all its little brothers and sisters), and reconnect SD to Arizona by rail. That would be awesome!


Neat, but what does it have to do with Egypt? ;)


This:
if you're worried about the canal, put all your Asian freight (made in China) into West Coast ports and rail it across country.
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: Egypt

Postby Shapley » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:10 pm

Thanks. I was having a problem connecting the two...
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Re: Egypt

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:44 pm

piqaboo wrote: This:
if you're worried about the canal, put all your Asian freight (made in China) into West Coast ports and rail it across country.



We do, about the only east coast product that goes through the Suez is oil. Approximately 85% of our China products come into the west coast.
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Re: Egypt

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:18 pm

This BBC report appears to be good news for Israel at the moment.
Israel publicly objected to an Iranian plan to send warships into the Mediterranean through the Suez Canal and Egypt announced that those plans had been canceled:

Plans by two Iranian warships to pass through the Suez Canal into the Mediterranean have been cancelled, says an Egyptian official.
The unnamed official was reported as saying the plans had been withdrawn, without giving a reason.

He said the ships were near the Saudi Red Sea port of Jeddah.

Israel had reacted angrily to the plans, with Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman warning that it could not “forever ignore these provocations”
.

According to CNN’s source, the Iranians weren’t planning on traversing the Suez Canal anyway:

Iran has not requested to move any of its warships through the Suez Canal, an Egyptian official said Thursday.

“No Iranian warships sailed through the canal in the last two days and nothing is planned for the coming days either,” said Ahmed El-Manakhly, the transit director of the Suez Canal Authority.

“In order for any warship to cross the canal, their government needs to send a request to the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs through their embassy in Cairo for approval and once approved, the warships can cross the canal. but for now, no official request has been submitted,” he said.

The development came a day after Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman said two Iranian warships were expected to pass through the Suez Canal Wednesday night on their way to Syria.


The issue has significant ramifications for Egypt and Israel. Israel withdrew from the Sinai almost thirty years ago, leaving Egypt in total control of the Suez Canal for the first time since the 1973 Yom Kippur War. If Egypt allows Iranian warships to sail towards Israel’s western shore unimpeded the Israelis are, IMHO, prepared and willing to move back into the Sinai and exert their own control over what sails through the canal.

Shipping in the canal is very, very vulnerable to military action and if Israel does move back into the Sinai you’ll see maritime insurance companies like Lloyd’s canceling policies for shipping in the Suez.
For now, it’s good news that Egypt has either stopped Iran from sailing warships through the Suez, or perhaps Israel convinced them to change their minds.

Personally, I don’t think the Israelis will permit the ships in the Med. And will probably take action if they show up. I suspect that both Iran and Egypt and the rest of the Arab countries are fearful that the Israelis are prepared to take action. Unlike the reaction to U.S. bluster these days, the Israelis are truly feared.
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Re: Egypt

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:09 am

I hate to say “I told you so,” but this is just what I was worried about: Egypt’s pro-democracy activists feel their grip slipping.


Sensing the revolution that overthrew President Hosni Mubarak is slipping from their grasp, activists and opposition groups are pressuring the ruling military council to postpone Egypt’s elections in September amid fears that Islamists and members of the former regime will gain too much power.. . . The pressing concern among independents and secularists is that the Brotherhood, the nation’s largest and best-organized party, may win about 25% of the seats in parliament and control even more through a coalition. This could give the organization the power to infuse the new constitution with conservative Islamic ideals to limit rights for women and non-Muslims.

“The Brotherhood is tyrannical in its opinions and views, and I think they will take the side of the Islamist businessmen who fund it and have strict Islamic ideologies,” said Khalid Sayed, a member of the Jan. 25 Youth Coalition. “Whatever constitution they might form would not fulfill the demands of Egyptians for civil rights and democracy.”


Wait, I thought they were misunderstood moderates? But this is how it goes: Kerensky could replace the Czar, but Lenin could replace Kerensky — and there was no one around who could replace Lenin, because Lenin made sure of that right off.

The liberal democrats should have killed him when they had the chance, but they hesitated, and he didn’t.
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