America's addiction to foreign oil

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America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:14 pm

What's that about? How many countries are totally self-sufficient and do not import anything? You know, we produce sugar, but must import sugar to meet our needs--why isn't this described as an addiction to foreign sugar? Or fruit, we import fruit, too. Rare-earth metals? Huh, why not? Toyotas? Is there something special going on here?
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby jamiebk » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:49 pm

People generally have not died over the supply of sugar. Nor is it vital to our national security....I guess. :rofl:
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Shapley » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:02 pm

jamiebk wrote:People generally have not died over the supply of sugar.


I'm sure more than a few have.
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby jamiebk » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:06 pm

Shapley wrote:
jamiebk wrote:People generally have not died over the supply of sugar.


I'm sure more than a few have.


now that you mention it, I have known my share of diabetics...but I am sure that's not what you meant.
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Shapley » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:30 am

That was in my mind, but it was not what I meant. We've had wars, revolutions, pillaging and plundering, and general mayhem in the Banana Republics from which we import our sugar. Carving sugar plantations out of jungle wildernesses, with various European and other interests fighting for control of the lands, left a lot of blood shed on the soil of Central and South America, the Caribbean Islands, Hawaii, and so forth.

Seems to me we used to get a lot of it from Cuba, once...
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:25 am

The Hawaiian Nation was overthrown by Americans because of sugar. This is a big deal here, you can't go into a library or government building without seeing a poster reminding you about it. Hawaiians aren't going to forget they lost their nation because of America's desire for sugar. It's generally portrayed as a bloodless coup, even though a few people died.
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby dai bread » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:13 pm

Security of supply, even then. Now, people complain when the Chinese look for security of supply by investing in Africa, and trying to buy farms here.

As for oil, the problem is not that it comes from foreign sources, but that those sources have politically unstable, repressive and sometimes just plain nasty regimes. All are unfriendly to the U.S., despite what their leaders may say to your diplomats' faces. In the Middle East, there is the added complication of Israel.
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:08 pm

My point is that oil isn't any different than all the other things we must import and the term addiction is politically oriented. It's common and acceptable to use "addiction" when speaking of oil yet it implies an agenda. I have nothing against alternative energy. It's still just a dream because the technology isn't there. When the price and reliability are better than oil then we can demonize oil.

And what about fruit? We can grow our own fruit. Notice no one complains about an addiction to foreign fruit?
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:20 pm

Giant Communist Robot wrote:My point is that oil isn't any different than all the other things we must import and the term addiction is politically oriented. It's common and acceptable to use "addiction" when speaking of oil yet it implies an agenda. I have nothing against alternative energy. It's still just a dream because the technology isn't there. When the price and reliability are better than oil then we can demonize oil.

And what about fruit? We can grow our own fruit. Notice no one complains about an addiction to foreign fruit?


I assume you meant "can't grow our own fruit" ??

Most Americans don't recall the origins of the phrase "Banana Republic" and the USMC enforcing Dole's hold on most fruit from Central America in the early 1900s. I notice that China's restrictions on rare-earth ore is "forcing" the U.S. to re-open Colorado mines. Regardless of the commodity, if it is in the best interest of a soverign nation to ensure supplies morality pretty much goes out the window.

Environmentalists aside, Canada's oil sands will be the next best thing to developing our own oil and gas until an administration more friendly to domestic production is in office. In 2008 we saw candidate Obama pay lip service to expanding our domestic energy production when gas hovered around $5 a gal. I suspect $6 - $10 a gal would force even the Obama Administration to some concrete action.

And just as oil plummeted to a one day record low when Bush just announced he would open previously closed oil fields to domestic production, I can't imagine the scope of a similar drop if Obama made the same pronouncement. Even if he doesn't follow through, we'll have cheaper oil for a few years.
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:53 am

Big Green Groups Tell Obama To Tell Canada To Drop Dead.


Yeah, who wants a reliable oil supply from a friendly neighbor? It’s almost like these people want to hurt the economy.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Marye » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:40 pm

OYE! Stay out of our Oil Sands!! :P We aren't sharing.... :lol:
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:01 pm

Marye wrote:OYE! Stay out of our Oil Sands!! :P We aren't sharing.... :lol:


I apologize to all Canadians for Barack Obama
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:28 am

url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/24/us-economy-oil-idUSTRE71N2SB20110224]Analysis: Oil prices could be game-changer for world economy.[/url]

“Soaring oil prices are reaching levels that could threaten to brake improving but tentative global economic recovery, with an outside chance of a new recession or that most destructive of conditions, stagflation.”


And this is news!?!? Gas jumped 17 cents this past week in Dallas at the discount stores, Sam’s Costco, etc. It jumped more than 20 cents at the local 7-11.

Actually, according to the MSM it isn’t news. Gas has jumped more than 60% since Obama was inaugurated and trying to find any critical news outside the Wall Street Journal is an exercise in futility.

President Barack Obama’s Energy Secretary Steven Chu wants to “figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe.” Today gas cost $7 – $9 a gallon in Europe.

Tell me again about the “objective press”??
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Shapley » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:43 pm

As soon as they can figure out how to blame it on President Bush, it will be news...
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Marye » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:15 pm

Giant Communist Robot wrote:
Marye wrote:OYE! Stay out of our Oil Sands!! :P We aren't sharing.... :lol:


I apologize to all Canadians for Barack Obama


The U.S. has a lot to apologise for over the centuries... :lol:
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:06 pm

The Congressional Research Service (CRS) has issued a report that claims that the US has far more recoverable reserves in oil and natural gas than previously thought:

U.S. proved reserves of oil total 19.1 billion barrels, reserves of natural gas total 244.7 trillion cubic feet, and natural gas liquids reserves of 9.3 billion barrels. Undiscovered technically recoverable oil in the United States is 145.5 billion barrels, and undiscovered technically recoverable natural gas is 1,162.7 trillion cubic feet. The demonstrated reserve base for coal is 488 billion short tons, of which 261 billion short tons are considered technically recoverable. …

Proved reserves are those amounts of oil, natural gas, or coal that have been discovered and defined, typically by drilling wells or other exploratory measures, and which can be economically recovered. In the United States, proved reserves are typically measured by private companies, who report their findings to the Securities and Exchange Commission because they are considered capital assets. In addition to the volumes of proved reserves are deposits of oil and gas that have not yet been discovered, which are called undiscovered resources. The term has a specific meaning: undiscovered resources are amounts of oil and gas estimated to exist in unexplored areas. If they are considered to be recoverable using existing production technologies, they are referred to as undiscovered technically recoverable resources (UTRR). In-place resources are intended to represent all of the oil, natural gas, or coal contained in a formation or basin without regard to technical or economic recoverability.


Opponents of domestic production in oil and gas claim we cannot drill our way out of the energy crisis and our dependence on imported oil. However, the findings certainly suggest that we can in fact do so, and that we can make that solution last for a very long time. Even on its own, those reserves would last 22 years if we stopped all current areas of American production. Furthermore, we’re likely to find more as we take the leash off of exploration. Don’t forget that it is illegal to even look for oil and gas deposits in the U.S.

It’s time to start acting like adults. We need to use oil, and we have plenty under our feet. Let’s start using it instead of putting cash into the pockets of unstable and unfriendly regimes.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Shapley » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:23 pm

The quantity of 'proved reserves' increases with the price of oil, because that number uses economic feasibility in determining their inclusion. Thus, if it is not economically viable to recover oil from Illinois when the price is $60 per barrel, those reserves are not included in the count. If the price of oil rises above that threshold, the Illinois fields will become a part of the reserve.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/natural_ ... es/cr.html

"Proved reserves of oil increased in each of the five largest crude oil and lease condensate areas (Texas, the Gulf of Mexico Federal Offshore, California, Alaska, and North Dakota) in 2009. Texas had the largest proved reserves increase, 529 million barrels (11 percent), nearly all in the Permian Basin. North Dakota reported the second largest increase, 481 million barrels (83 percent), because of Bakken Formation development. A significant driver for these increases was the higher average level of 2009 crude oil prices relative to those of December 2008."

This leads to a problem: If drilling lowers the price of oil, then once we open the reserves for drilling, it may no longer be economically viable to do so. But, if the effect is to keep prices low, then the goal will have been met, and we can save those reserves for a later day, when technoloy drives down the cost of recoverability or other factors permanently drive up the cost of importing oil.
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:10 pm

Opponents of domestic production in oil and gas claim we cannot drill our way out of the energy crisis and our dependence on imported oil.


Of course, these people only think in terms of "easy" oil
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby piqaboo » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:18 pm

I love Sicilian olive oil. I dont want to break my addiction. :P
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:14 pm

On the subject of the Permian basin, oil, scenery, and ecology: have y'all ever seen West Texas? Scenic, it is not. Lovely, hardly. The coyotes and jackalopes will not mind the presence of a few pumpjacks. Or, even, a lot of pumpjacks and a derrick or three.

I am in favor of efficient, low-profile extraction machinery. The wind is less likely to knock them over.
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