America's addiction to foreign oil

Everyone loves a healthy debate. Post an idea or comment about a current event or issue. Let others post their ideas also. This area is for those who love to explore other points of view.

Moderator: Nicole Marie

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:50 pm

The coyotes and jackalopes will not mind the presence of a few pumpjacks
That's why there's so few armadillos. That and global warming.
Thinking is overrated
Giant Communist Robot
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3236
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Waiau, Hawaii

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby piqaboo » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:00 pm

Huh. I thought it was 'cause Texas uses armadillos as speed bumps.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Shapley » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:27 pm

That's because the armadillos have moved up here. Presumably, they are trying to get away from the border violence, but I'm not positive about that.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:47 am

Shapley wrote: Presumably, they are trying to get away from the border violence, but I'm not positive about that.


Trust me, those jumping, horny shelled b*****ds are avoided by any self respecting Texan. They jump when scared and can cause damage to the oil pan or grill. One in six is a leprosy carrier and can transmit the disease to humans in hot and humid locales.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Shapley » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:02 am

I thought the possums had organized some kind of crusade. I look about, and I see armored possums lining the road (and, in some cases, paving it :) ).
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:27 pm

This, from President Obama's speech in Rio today, is the latest sign of America's decline:

In particular, with the new oil finds off Brazil, President Rousseff has said that Brazil wants to be a major supplier of new stable sources of energy, and I've told her that the United States wants to be a major customer, which would be a win-win for both our countries.


Our ancestors came to the United States because they saw more opportunity here than in their native countries. As our economy falters under the Obama/Pelosi/Reid regime and opportunities narrow in the United States, more Americans are looking abroad to see whether they can better their prospects.

The BBC reports on an exodus of Americans--small, so far, to be sure--to Brazil: Americans eye opportunities in Brazil's booming economy:

The Harkins and the Lizarragas are part of an increasing trend - Americans moving south in search of the "Brazilian dream".

According to the Brazilian Labour Ministry, 7,550 American citizens were granted a work visa in Brazil in 2010, up from 5,590 the previous year and more than double the number in 2006.

The majority of Brazil's legal foreign workers come from the US.

The reasons are clear. The US has been struggling to recover economic growth and unemployment is running at some 9%. By contrast, Brazil's economic performance in recent years has been strong - 7.55% in 2010.


In the U.S., alarming numbers of people are unemployed or underemployed. In Brazil, "64% of employers find it difficult to fill job vacancies." The Obama administration has deliberately fettered our energy sector in pursuit of "green" goals. No other country in the world is that stupid; certainly not Brazil:

One of the key sectors for foreigners is energy, mostly because of the country's expanding oil and gas exploration industries. There are also opportunities in infrastructure, mining, retail and finance
.

Under Obama's new, post-industrial order, petroleum engineering and exploration, drilling and refining are more jobs Americans won't do. Instead, others create wealth and we pay them for it. With what? doesn't seem to be a question that occurs to our President.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Shapley » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:34 pm

One of the things 'the left' doesn't seem to grasp is that the creation of wealth usually involves the extraction and transformation of goods from low- to high-value. Thus, mining extracts product of low-value, usually ore, and increases the value of that product through the addition of labour and mechanical processes. Crippling the ability to mine or otherwise extract those low-value minerals means they must be purchased, usually at higher value. This cripples a nations wealth-creation. There is no question we can extract, process, and market our own ores and fossil fuels with a greater over-all addition of wealth than we can purchase, process, and market someone elses'.

I have nothing against the importation of foreign raw materials for processing and marketing, or even against the importation of foreign finished product for marketing. I'm just saying that, if the goal is wealth creation, we would be better served by extracting and processing our own.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:55 am

One of the things 'the left' doesn't seem to grasp is that the creation of wealth usually involves the extraction and transformation of goods from low- to high-value.


Adam Smith stuff, and the foundation of modern capitalism. The core philosophy of the left rejects Smith and instead looks to Marx. The curious part is that most of the left is unaware of where their ideas come from.
Thinking is overrated
Giant Communist Robot
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3236
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Waiau, Hawaii

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby piqaboo » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:49 pm

I'm happy for Brazil.

I guess I dont see huge evidence of armageddon in 10,000 Americans looking for work in a foreign country.
I suspect some of those were working abroad already, in locales that recently became somewhat unfriendly.
Right now I have a nice Taiwanese lady living w me, working in the US. If we could find someone who wanted to do her job,
she'd not have it, the local would.
Travel, adventure, etc.

However, I do think Obama has barked up more than one wrong tree. The insurance thing among them.
Some of the energy stuff - almost all of how he went about his goals, even if I kinda of agreed the goal was worth while.
Please, let him not run again. Let him decide to retire and bask in public speaking opportunities forever more.
A shoutout to Dr Sunshine who considered our insurance coverage in his prescriptions, tho we'd have been able (very very painfully, but able)
to go with the preferred prescription even in the absence of insurance.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:05 am

Brazilian domestic oil production has risen 876 percent over the last 20 years – -most of it from offshore. That’s how they “got off foreign oil.” That’s why they went from importing 77 percent of their oil in 1980 to importing none today. In another few years they might even join OPEC and start selling the oil they’ve discovering with help from our technology.For a look at the Brazilian data in graphic form, see this item.

Why can't we do this?
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:29 pm

Why can't we do this?


It could happen, but might not. Once we all start riding around in electric golf carts and use solar energy demand might drop to the point where it won't be economically feasible for us to extract our more difficult oil. I recently read that the U.S. has the most fossil fuel energy.
Thinking is overrated
Giant Communist Robot
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3236
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Waiau, Hawaii

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:15 pm

Here's something interesting: since about 1980, our oil demand has risen by about 30%, but our GDP has nearly tripled. This suggests we're becoming more efficient.
Thinking is overrated
Giant Communist Robot
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3236
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Waiau, Hawaii

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:19 am

Giant Communist Robot wrote:
Why can't we do this?


...and use solar energy...


Do any Americans realize that solar energy hasn't saved $0.01?

jes wonderin'
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby piqaboo » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:58 pm

How do you come to this conclusion, haggis?
It saved my neighbors a few more cents than that, even after they paid for the pump, black paint, wood, metal, glass and piping.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:34 pm

piqaboo wrote:How do you come to this conclusion, haggis?
It saved my neighbors a few more cents than that, even after they paid for the pump, black paint, wood, metal, glass and piping.



It might, might eventually save individual users money but public untilities are still creating back up electricity.

For all those windmills spinning in CA there are full power back up power plants online to kick in when the wind dies down. Thus, behind all the smoke and mirror claims the same amount of petro chemicals (or nukes) is being consumed generating the power you might need, thus, no real concrete savings.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby dai bread » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:02 pm

I priced solar hot water a couple of years ago. Payback period was something over 20 years. You need to use a lot of hot water before a solar installation becomes economical. A young family, for instance, or a dairy farmer with equipment to wash.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
dai bread
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3020
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:25 pm

Somewhere in this tale, a lesson awaits to be learned — by legislators about the laws of unintended consequences, and by taxpayers about government interventions. The state of Washington, which has pushed its citizens to buy electric vehicles through tax breaks and public-relations efforts, not to mention a tax on gasoline that is among the highest in the country, may slap owners of electric cars with an annual fee:

Drivers of electric cars may have left the gas pump behind, but there’s one expense they may not be able to shake: paying to maintain the roads.
After years of urging residents to buy fuel-efficient cars and giving them tax breaks to do it, Washington state lawmakers are considering a measure to charge them a $100 annual fee — what would be the nation’s first electric car fee.

State lawmakers grappling with a $5 billion deficit are facing declining gas tax revenue, which means less money to maintain or improve roads.
“Electric vehicles put just as much wear and tear on our roads as gas vehicles,” said Democratic state Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen, the bill’s lead sponsor. “This simply ensures that they contribute their fair share to the upkeep of our roads.”


"contribute their fair share"; this is such a schadenfreude moment
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby jamiebk » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:09 pm

either that or start a toll road program for all highways. Hummmm lets see, as I recall, Texas has one of the largest toll road systems in the nations with a number of Privatized highways. Roads aren't free. They get paid through tolls, use taxes (such as gasoline) or general taxes.
Jamie

"Leave it better than you found it"
jamiebk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 4284
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:01 am
Location: SF Bay Area - Wine Country

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Shapley » Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:38 pm

Shell Forced To Abandon Arctic Drilling Plans After EPA Ruling

The left hand knoweth not what the Left Hand doeth...
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: America's addiction to foreign oil

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:45 pm

Don't whine about the price of gas if you refuse responsible drilling
Thinking is overrated
Giant Communist Robot
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3236
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Waiau, Hawaii

PreviousNext

Return to The Debate Team

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users