U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

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U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:27 am

Okay, at long, long, long, long, long last we’re finally going to have that “adult conversation” on entitlements that both parties have been promising us for decades — with a federal default bearing down on us, no less. Just a few hours ago, the Treasury Department warned that the U.S. will hit the debt ceiling no later than May 16, with a do-or-die date of July 8 if the first deadline is missed and Treasury has to use “extraordinary measures” to extend it.

But here are the two main “choices” presently on display:

Obama’s cynical, unserious, catastrophic budget proposal as the baseline, it’s $6.2 trillion over the next decade. (yes, I know I’m biased, live with it)

Or $4.4 trillion less in spending over 10 years if we’re going by CBO’s numbers.

How long do you suppose the tenor of the conversation will stay “adult”? I suspect the “Your grandma’s gonna have to eat cat food!!!” standard Democrat sound bites will begin before this Friday.

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The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Shapley » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:42 am

Roll out the "starving grandma" footage!

Ryan has presented the GOP's proposed 2012 budget, which he says will trim $6 trillion over ten years. But, we still haven't been able to pass this year's budget, even though this year is over half over. We're squabbling over billions, when we need to be thinking trillions. We're not even talking about starving grandma's yet, we can't even get rid of Cowboy Poetry festivals or make Big Bird live off his merchandise sales revenue. We've got a long way to go, but at least the Republicans are offering 'adult conversation' about it.

Let's see if the Democrats can sit down to T.E.A. and discuss this like gentlemen...
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby piqaboo » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:05 pm

Where do they get that projection from?
That curve looks superimposed irrelevant of the data leading up to it.
Its a possibility, but so is flat line, etc, so what was the justification for that particular curve?

Any Gma smart enough to be one knows that dried beans are cheaper than cat meat.
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:19 pm

piqaboo wrote:Where do they get that projection from?
That curve looks superimposed irrelevant of the data leading up to it.
Its a possibility, but so is flat line, etc, so what was the justification for that particular curve?

Any Gma smart enough to be one knows that dried beans are cheaper than cat meat.



The same level of spending as contained in the Obama budget. I find it funny (in a sad way) that all Ryan is proposing is a return to the same spending level of 2008. I don't recall that we were turning granny out of her house that year, maybe I missed it. Ryan is proposing a 2% reduction in the budget and you'd think the Democrats were being stabbed through the heart. We, as a country, have to get our spending under control and even Ryan's plan doesn't see us returning to a balanced budget until 2050. THAT'S extreme?
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:01 pm

Where do they get that projection from?


A seventy year forecast is pretty brave. Or dumb. "Preaching to the choir."

What little I've read about Ryan's proposal sounds good.
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby piqaboo » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:53 pm

Be interesting to see how it all ends up working out.
In CA, we can vote bread and circuses, but the money isnt there, and less will be available since the govt will have to keep defending itself in lawsuits by the folks who demand the money that isnt there.

I am appalled, still, that Congress is allowed (its constitutional) to vote into being something required of all americans EXCEPT Congress.
That's downright surreal.
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:18 pm

Congress is allowed (its constitutional) to vote into being something required of all americans EXCEPT Congress.


Can you believe that? Ivan Boevsky went to prison and paid hundreds of millions of dollars in fines for doing what's legal for Congress.
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby jamiebk » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:33 pm

Balancing the federal budget is easy...The republicans just have someone else pay the bills....YOU.
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:49 pm

jamiebk wrote:Balancing the federal budget is easy...The republicans just have someone else pay the bills....YOU.


All bills will be paid by taxes, regardless of party.

The basic issue looks like this:

Republicans prefer spending cuts, especially entitlements

Democrats prefer tax increases, especially marginal increases
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:48 am

jamiebk wrote:Balancing the federal budget is easy...The republicans just have someone else pay the bills....YOU.



If by "you" you mean sharing some of the pain I would agree with you. We can't keep spending at this level. The democrat led congress and president had added nearly 5 trillion dollars to our debt in less than four years and their current budget proposed by the presidents continues that level of spending. Do you think it can continue? We borrow 40 cent on every dollar we spend today and that will increase.

My 94 y.o. MIL gets about $9K a year in SS payments and has done so for decades. Not a lot but since she never spent $10K into it during her entire working life that's a net drain on our resources. That might have been possible when we had 10 - 30 people paying her SS payouts bt now there are less than three supporting her. A reckoning is coming and one way or the other it will be merely painful or disastrously painful; I don't see any other outcome.

Do the Republicans have the solution? I'm not sure but I know that something that can't go on forever, won't,
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Shapley » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:53 am

Giant Communist Robot wrote:Republicans prefer spending cuts, especially entitlements


If you're going to make significant cuts, you've got to cut where the money is going. In the 2010 budget, for example, nearly every penny ($2.2 trillion of a $2.3 trillion in projected revenue) is spent on 'entitlements' (actually defined as 'mandatory spending', which includes such things as interest on the debt).

'Discretionary Spending', which included Defense spending, covers the things the government is constitutionally empowered to do, such as fight wars. 'Mandatory spending' includes many things conservatives believe are supposed to be outside the scope of the federal government's authority - principly writing checques to indviduals for things other than services rendered.
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:51 pm

I recently read two books about the history of the British Navy, and I see a prima facie case for the restrictions put upon them by the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty hurting more than helping. With this in mind, cutting defense spending looks like the wrong thing to do.
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:27 am

Giant Communist Robot wrote: cutting defense spending looks like the wrong thing to do.


The truth is that cutting it in its entirety still won't get to the real problem which are, as you pointed out, entitlements. I fully expect that my military retirement payment, small as it is, will probably preclude me from receiving much, if any SS, and I'm willing to forgo that in a fair entitlement reform. But it has to come soon.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:26 am

Obama to Call for Broad Plan to Reduce Debt.

“President Obama will call this week for Republicans to join him in writing a broad plan to raise revenues and reduce the growth of popular entitlement programs, as the battle over the nation’s financial troubles moves past Friday’s short-term budget deal and into a wider and more consequential debate over the nation’s long-term fiscal health.”


The is Democrat speak for tax increases.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Shapley » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:30 am

Haggis@wk wrote:The is Democrat speak for tax increases.


Yep. Rep. Ryan has proposed a 'flat tax', without calling it that, in his budget proposal for the upcoming fiscal year. He would elimnate most deduction and 'loopholes', while cutting the capital gains tax rate further. I'll be curious to see if it makes any headway.
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby piqaboo » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:14 pm

Giant Communist Robot wrote:
jamiebk wrote:Balancing the federal budget is easy...The republicans just have someone else pay the bills....YOU.


All bills will be paid by taxes, regardless of party.

The basic issue looks like this:

Republicans prefer spending cuts, especially entitlements

Democrats prefer tax increases, especially marginal increases


If the Republicans really truely wanted to cut entitlements, very few of them would still be around. I think they like them in their own district, and they LOVE them to make noise about during campaigns. But they dont really want them to go away. If they did, they'd pick one, and work together to eliminate it. Then they'd pick another, and so forth.
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:29 pm

If the Republicans really truely wanted to cut entitlements, very few of them would still be around.


I did say "prefer". It's a philosophical difference. Pick the battles you can win.
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:43 am

Putting things into perspective our local talk show boy just said that a trillion seconds equals 31688 years, 32 days, 1 hour, 46 minutes and 40 seconds . And we have almost $15,000,000,000,000 in debt.

Altoid's children's childrens will live poorer than we do now paying for that debt. What a bitter legacy we are leaving our children.
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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby Shapley » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:16 am

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Re: U.S. Debt, Today and Tomorrow

Postby piqaboo » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:50 pm

Giant Communist Robot wrote:
If the Republicans really truely wanted to cut entitlements, very few of them would still be around.


I did say "prefer". It's a philosophical difference. Pick the battles you can win.

I say they "prefer" to talk about cutting them.
You can win cutbacks, one at a time. The R's had congress for a while, and they werent all that cut-happy then either.
Lots of talk, lots of adding things back in to get other things passed, not much actual cutting.
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