The war on terrorism

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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Wed May 04, 2011 9:42 am

Shapley wrote: We're not barbarians..

I am.

I've learned enough manners and seemly conduct to avoid gossip and derision when out in public; the underlay is a cheerful savage. I don't know if it's my father's Tennessee redneck input (significant Scottish content there) or my mother's Swedish antecedents, or sheer good fortune and the blessed hand of God, but I am untrammeled by gentility and useless remorse.

Thank you, God.
>^..^<
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby BigJon » Wed May 04, 2011 10:56 pm

My admiration for you continues to grow . . .
Even a blind nut finds a squirrel once in a while. – Me! Feb 9, 2001
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri May 06, 2011 3:52 pm

“OBAMA GOT BIN LADEN just like Nixon reached the moon.”

yup

TWO PAPERS IN ONE:

“NYT: Obama Nabbing Osama: ‘Glow of National Pride;’ Bush’s Capture of Saddam ‘Momentarily’ Halted ‘Spiral of Concern.’”
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Fri May 06, 2011 9:02 pm

From Reuters


Michael Moore thinks Osama bin Laden's death at the hands of U.S. Navy Seals is a conspiracy
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Shapley » Fri May 06, 2011 10:14 pm

Giant Communist Robot wrote:Michael Moore thinks Osama bin Laden's death at the hands of U.S. Navy Seals is a conspiracy


It was. The government and the U.S. Navy Seals conspired to kill him, and they did. Good for them.

Michael Moore thinks he should have had a trial. He does not understand the difference between war and law enforcement. He's not the sharpest tool in the tool shed.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Sat May 07, 2011 1:13 am

Missiles and drones fired at al-Awlaki in Yemen. Them things don't work. Next time send in the SEALs.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Sat May 07, 2011 3:36 am

And another drone attack in Pakistan. These guys are busy.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat May 07, 2011 10:26 am

When you absolutely, positively have to kill them on a Sunday, send the SEALs.

Special Operators were slow in being accepted by the military hierarchy. The military is, by necessity, a conservative organization; change often kills. But Pres. Reagan had a vision of warfare to come and against great opposition ordered that special operations in the military double from 1981 to 1990. Both Republican "large military" and Democrats "pacifists" members of congress, as well as military bosses, opposed him at nearly every turn.

I, personally, remember being ambivalent at the time. I was a spear totting, small cog member of an even smaller segment of the military, the counterintelligence community, and was quite happy in being able to do a job in relative anonymity. I hadn't realized at the time that the importance of my profession had been honed by the Vietnam War experience and would change dramatically in the last 6 years of my career aided in small part by me only because I worked for a brilliant civilian named Doug Thomas. He’s now an SES4 for a Very Important Agency. He, and others, recognized that the face of war had changed and we needed to get smaller and more intense to meet the challenges of the new century.

It seems so obvious now in light of Spec Ops successes around the world. And failures, I was there during “Blackhawk Down” and know exactly what went wrong and was unable to see it at the time. I console myself in the occasional late sleepless night with that fact; none of us were listened to by the Spec Ops leaders. They had become the same as the complacent, conservative military leaders they thought they had replaced. Hopefully they learned from that disaster. Sunday's operation seems to prove that.

Anyway, we now have a flexible, precise, usually secret and very violent knife in the drawer. Secrecy is the key. In 1992, I only learned by accident we had had Spec Ops people in Somalia for almost a year before the publicized Dec. 1992 “Restore Hope” operation I was a part of.

They labor, for the most part, in silence and secrecy. And like Sunday, they kill our enemies and generate fear in the others. I'm gladden.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Shapley » Sat May 07, 2011 11:36 am

As I recall, the special operations forces, while effective, were frowned upon during the war in French Indo-China. "Hit Squads", I believe, was how they were called. It was just a part of the general anti-military attitude of the time, and probably a spillover from the Bay of Pigs and, perhaps, the murder of President Diem.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby jamiebk » Sat May 07, 2011 12:55 pm

Shapley wrote:Michael Moore thinks he should have had a trial.


He did have a trial. He tried to escape so they shot him. heh.....
Jamie

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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby dai bread » Sat May 07, 2011 5:40 pm

that the importance of my profession had been honed by the Vietnam War experience and would change dramatically in the last 6 years of my career aided in small part by me only because I worked for a brilliant civilian named Doug Thomas. He’s now an SES4 for a Very Important Agency. He, and others, recognized that the face of war had changed and we needed to get smaller and more intense to meet the challenges of the new century.


It's snippets of information like this that make me realise that the hype in the "news" and the evident gross mismanagement that is rife in so many places, not just the U.S., cover up some competent people who do sound and far-sighted work behind the scenes. Rather like those Seals.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun May 08, 2011 11:27 am

dai bread wrote: It's snippets of information like this that make me realise that the hype in the "news" and the evident gross mismanagement that is rife in so many places, not just the U.S., cover up some competent people who do sound and far-sighted work behind the scenes. Rather like those Seals.



At the end of my career I worked for two men, Doug, and Colonel Thomson. Both were visionaries and we were part of a new organization that had started in 1992 as a result of lessons learned in the first Gulf War. That reorg was in time for Restore Hope in Somalia and allowed us to test our new force protection skills and sharpen them. We provided real-time counterintelligence for the commanders in order to better protect their resources.

I was very familiar with the scene of the "Blackhawk Down" story; I had been there several time confiscating weapons. It was a old hotel that Aideed used to house his troops and they were very aggressive with us. What was different was we showed up in massive USMC armored Amphibs (I once commented to the young Marine driving one of them that it was hard to believe that something so metal massive floated. He solemnly responded "It doesn't Sir, it just sinks real slow so that why we want to get on shore as soon as we leave the ship" :rofl: )

The Amphibs packed 50. M2 machine guns, in that environment that counted as a "heavy weapon". We had transportation into and out of the area. That was key. By the time of Blackhawk Down those assets has departed and there was no U.S. armor in Somalia.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun May 08, 2011 11:41 am

Went out for our date night Friday as usual. We usually eat at an Italian restaurant because the have good fish and the MRHYN hates fish andd never cooks it and I'm a fish head. Anyway, the bartender asked me if I wanted to try a new drink called the "Osama Bin Laden." He said it consisted of "two shots and a spash" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun May 08, 2011 12:40 pm

London's Guardian reports Osama bin Laden's house isn't worth as much as had been advertised:

After Sunday night's dramatic raid by US Navy Seals, a senior Obama administration official told reporters that the property, an "extraordinarily unique compound" in an "affluent suburb," was valued at around $1m.
But two property professionals in Abbottabad--a quiet, military-dominated town--said that much of that was incorrect. Based on the size of the plot and the house, which was built in 2005, and using recent property sales as a guide, they estimated that it would fetch no more than $250,000 on the current market.


Assuming bin Laden made the customary 20% down payment and took out a mortgage for $800,000 in 2005, he's going to be underwater for a long time. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun May 08, 2011 2:49 pm

Der Spiegel:

A Hamburg judge has filed a criminal complaint against Chancellor Angela Merkel for “endorsing a crime” after she stated she was “glad” that Osama bin Laden was killed by US forces. Meanwhile a new poll reveals that a majority of Germans do not see the terrorist’s death as a reason to celebrate…

Politicians, including those within her own center-right coalition, said that no death was cause for celebration, and reproved the remark as un-Christian and vengeful.
But Hamburg judge Heinz Uthmann went even further. He alleges that the chancellor’s statement was nothing short of illegal, and filed a criminal complaint against Merkel midweek, the daily Hamburger Morgenpost reported Friday.

“I am a law-abiding citizen and as a judge, sworn to justice and law,” the 54-year-old told the paper, adding that Merkel’s words were “tacky and undignified.”


Then he took to his fainting couch and wept into a lace hanky from the shame of it all.


It took over 65 years, but as of today, the United States’ total demoralization of Germany is finally complete. Germany, remember them? Made a lot of noise in the ’30s and ’40s. Self-styled rulers of the world, Third Reich, Master Race, that sort of thing. Fairly arrogant, if you ask me.

Then we crushed them. We beat them down and built them back up as a pale shadow of what they once were. We humiliated them, emasculated them, showed them who’s boss, broke their spirit to the point where they’re now reduced to this

Deutschland über ball-less.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Shapley » Mon May 09, 2011 4:35 pm

Pakistan is now warning us not to kill Osama again or they will respond with force.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Mon May 09, 2011 6:36 pm

Shapley wrote:Pakistan is now warning us not to kill Osama again or they will respond with force.




Really, what are those guys over there supposed to do? They are corrupt beyond belief, sit on both sides of the fence, and hardly have any idea what their position is supposed to be at any moment. These look like the symptoms of a government desperate to stay in power.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Shapley » Mon May 09, 2011 9:19 pm

The Pakistani government needs U.S. support to stay in power, but they have to appear to be hostile to U.S. interests in order to keep revolutionaries at bay. Their hold on power is tenuous, at best. Beyond Islamabad, their hold on power, weak though it is, diminishes rapidly. The loyalty of the military purchased, and is subject to being outbid.

The press pretends that Osama bin Laden was hiding under their nose in Abbottabad. The most probable truth is their nose does not stretch that far.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue May 10, 2011 9:31 am

Pakistan cannot compete with India without outside help. Much of that help is coming from the U.S. We are in a dilemma. If we cut aid to Pakistan China is eagar to step in the void. The Chinese have built and use the port at Gwadar, built a highway linking the two countries and now plan an oil pipeline from Gwadar to China. Additionally Gwadar could be used to close the straits of Hormuz.

China is using Pakistan to blunt India's expanesion and Pakistan needs Chinese money to maintain it's military threat to India. I've personally felt that war between India and Pakistan is the single largest threat to world security. It would go nuclear quickly and could conceivably drag China into the conflict.

It is an ugly situation and I don't think the U.S. has any good ideas how to moderate or keep the lid on this pot.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue May 10, 2011 3:29 pm

U.S. Navy releases photo of OBL's funeral

Image

:rofl:
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