The war on terrorism

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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Tue May 10, 2011 3:47 pm

It is an ugly situation and I don't think the U.S. has any good ideas how to moderate or keep the lid on this pot.


Well, I'm not going to underestimate them. It's a work in progress.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Wed May 11, 2011 6:43 pm

I don't care if I see those pictures or not, but I wonder how long they'll be kept secret?
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun May 15, 2011 9:47 am

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Sun May 15, 2011 5:38 pm

In the name of fighting terrorism in Pakistan we may have to give equipment and intel to be used to keep India at bay.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue May 17, 2011 10:20 am

America Needs Better Villains Than Porn-Addicted Jihadists.

“The fact is, to achieve great heights, America needs a great villain to overcome, and as long as our big enemy is a bunch of primitive thugs servicing themselves in barren compounds, we’re going to be stuck in a rut.”


Really.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Tue May 17, 2011 2:28 pm

to achieve great heights, America needs a great villain to overcome


maybe in some movie-like narrative
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby jamiebk » Tue May 17, 2011 4:28 pm

Is this supposed to be some sort of "Steel sharpens steel" concept? Seems a little off to me.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Shapley » Tue May 17, 2011 5:07 pm

jamiebk wrote:Is this supposed to be some sort of "Steel sharpens steel" concept? Seems a little off to me.


I think he's suggesting we're at our best when we battle 'evil empires', not petty perusers of pornography.

A patriotic ferver swept the nation during World War II, and kept us going through the cold war. We began to bog down during the wishy-washy days of detente and Carter's policy malaise, but revived when we finally went head-to-head with the 'Evil Empire' under Ronaldus Maximus. Bush I was able to keep us rallied for a short while chasing Saddam out of Kuwait, but when we realized his army was really a bunch of weanies, the fervor died. We were at war, more or less, with terrorism (at least terrorists were at war with us, even if we didn't fight back much) during Clinton's years, even as we struggled in Yugoslavia. It was almost a real war.

President Bush rallied us again, both against Osama and Saddam (one alone was not enough to keep the fervor going), but once we found Saddam hiding in a sewer, and figured Osama was similarly cowed, the fervor, and the economy, began to falter.

A real enemy would reignite the fervor, and the economy with it. Face it, we're never prouder to be Americans than when we're blowin' up stuff and killing people who want to kill us!
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue May 17, 2011 6:53 pm

Giant Communist Robot wrote:maybe in some movie-like narrative



Yeah, like that WWII and Cold War movies
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Wed May 18, 2011 7:23 pm

I've read McCain's autobiography, and if his experience is relevant then torture doesn't work.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby dai bread » Sun May 22, 2011 9:42 pm

How could it? If you're being tortured, you either say what they want to hear, or you shut up because you're going to be killed anyway.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Shapley » Sun May 22, 2011 9:57 pm

dai bread wrote:How could it? If you're being tortured, you either say what they want to hear, or you shut up because you're going to be killed anyway.


Not everyone has that fortitude. Some are poor liars, and cannot fabricate information satisfactorily. Some lack the ability to shut up.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Mon May 23, 2011 1:37 pm

Shapley wrote:
dai bread wrote:How could it? If you're being tortured, you either say what they want to hear, or you shut up because you're going to be killed anyway.


Not everyone has that fortitude. Some are poor liars, and cannot fabricate information satisfactorily. Some lack the ability to shut up.



According to McCain, no one gave up important information at the Hanoi Hilton. There were cooperators that snitched on the other prisoners to gain better treatment. Severe torture was common. Mostly it was to obtain "confessions". They did make propaganda videos, while maintaining the tradition showing clues of coercion.

McCain:
"I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."


...and he made his video. But everyone had to be tortured to their breaking point.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:45 am

Al-Zawahiri appointed al Qaeda's new leader, jihadist websites say

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/06/ ... ?hpt=hp_t2
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:56 pm

If George Bush had killed Anwar al Awlaki … People like Andrew Sullivan and left-liberals (or is that redundant these days?) would be having a fit. After all, assassinating an American citizen without anything remotely approaching due process of law is stretching the bounds of lawful warfare to the breaking point. But because Barak Obama did it, it seems to be okay. Which is damned lame.

There seems little reason to shed tears for Al-Awlaki, a human pustule of at least the second order. But the drone-killing business raises questions. The questions have less to do with the human rights of folks like Al-Awlaki, though, and more to do with fears of abuse in the future. Those require some due-process regulation, which should come from Congress.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby piqaboo » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:20 pm

I've been wondering why he wasnt tried in absentia, long since.
While that raises its own issues, it would have converted the drone strike into a legally carried out execution ala the rosenburgs.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Shapley » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:57 am

Apparently, Yemen was in the process of trying him in absentia, and a judge ordered him brought in, dead or alive (can you sentence a corpse?).

I seem to recall some concern over the Russian poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko a few years back by Russia, which had targeted him for death. I suppose the principle difference here (besides the use of a drone-fired missile in lieu of Polonium poisoning) is that the host country also wanted al-Awlaki dead, whereas the British did not seem intent on killing Litvinenko...
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:42 pm

If anybody can be designated an enemy combatant in a war in which the battleground is everywhere and the president has legally unlimited power to do as he will, and when citizens can be put to death summarily, with no checks and balances and no meaningful separation of powers, we have surrendered something important.

There is a double standard at work here and it's dangerous to pretend there isn't. What if he had been in southwest Saudi Arabia?? Would we have fired a drone there? Or if he was Canada (or any other "Friendly" country) and the government there failed to extradite him would we have tried to kill him then?

Right now we feel embolden to attack people in Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Somalia; Is that list going to grow?
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby piqaboo » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:35 am

If he'd been tried in absentia in US Court, and found guilty, and sentenced in absentia, to death, certain governments would have extradited him at our request, and others wouldnt.
I'm thinking we would have no need for assassination if extradition were in process, so the question is then: when person so sentenced legally is hiding in country which wont extradite, is the US acting within its laws/constitution to assassinate the person?

I dont know the answer.
I know I am not happy with how it was handled in his case, because key parameter -trial - was not met.
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Re: The war on terrorism

Postby Shapley » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:35 am

Haggis@wk wrote:Right now we feel embolden to attack people in Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Somalia; Is that list going to grow?


You can add the United States to that list, if the incident at Ruby Ridge is any indication...

Yes, I think the list will grow.
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