PC & Health Policing In America

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PC & Health Policing In America

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:06 pm

…and this is just the beginning

After working over fourteen hours today, with perhaps three hours of sleep the night before, my boss on the DC consulting job took me out for dinner at a diner, nearly the only restaurant still open in Bethesda at that hour. After dinner he asked for a Banana Cream Pie, his usual self-treat after this sort of marathon work day. The night chef told us it is no longer available. Montgomery County outlawed Trans-Fats and such pies are now contraband. For a moment I considered asking if there was a back room where one could gorge on smuggled pies, but thought better of it. Such secret places would be only for locals and those known to the Mafia, not for transient gypsy engineers such as myself.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby jamiebk » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:28 am

banning a substance that is clearly killing as many Americans as cigarettes isn't a bad idea. Banana creme pies can be made without trans fat in them. Fact is, most food companies went to trans fat because its cheap and plentiful. You wanna eat that crap, be my guest. I'd rather have some room left in my artieries for the blood to flow.
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:45 am

jamiebk wrote:banning a substance that is clearly killing as many Americans as cigarettes isn't a bad idea. Banana creme pies can be made without trans fat in them. Fact is, most food companies went to trans fat because its cheap and plentiful. You wanna eat that crap, be my guest. I'd rather have some room left in my artieries for the blood to flow.


But that's the problem I can't "be my guest" in some parts of the U.S. Some nanny cop decides what I can or cannot eat.

Booze and cigarettes kill more Americans than food has and governments could outlaw both but they won't because 1. they depend on the tax revenue and 2. proibition didn't work (that's my one glimmer of hope)

Banning anything is never about public health, it's purely about government having more control over you.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby Shapley » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:59 am

The key point is simply this: if you take respsonsibily for your own health, including the costs of maintaining it, it is up to you whether or not you kill yourself with cigarettes, cream pies, or allow yourself live long enough to die of old age. Once you start handing the responsibility for your life to someone else, you are at their mercy.

Life insurance companies charge higher premiums for tobacco users than non-users. They used to charge more for 'smokers', but now most of them apply the extra charges to all types of tobacco. In some cases, they may even refuse coverage. This is the limit of power the insurance companies have - if you want to engage in your favourite vice, you have to pay the consequence, including a higher premium due to the increased risk.

The government, however, has the authority (not the right) to carry that further. They can regulate tobacco, and they can ban cream pies, they can order you lose weight (or else!), once you give them responsibility for your life. In essence, by handing that responsibility to the government, you hand them control over every aspect of how you live it. Cream pies may not bother you, but sooner or later some aspect of your life is going to be deemed too risky for the government nannies to allow. Hiking in treacherous mountains, for example, may be too much of a risk to be covered under a government programme, so you will be limited to 'approved trails' (the list of which will be compiled by the government bureau in charge of such things).

The Nanny State knows no limits.
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:31 am

From Britain's Daily Express:

The Children’s Secretary set out £400 million plans to put 20,000 problem families under 24-hour CCTV super-vision in their own homes.

They will be monitored to ensure that children attend school, go to bed on time and eat proper meals.


This is a logical progression from Government Healthcare. Government health care redefines the relationship between the citizen and the state in a way that hands all the advantages to statists — to those who believe government has a legitimate right to regulate human affairs in every particular. Social decay in Britain, which is at least partly due to the nanny state's assumption of all adult responsibilities, is so advanced that almost everyone now thinks this perfectly normal.

A government that is powerful enough to give you everything is powerful enough to take it all away.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:47 am

Last week, with little fanfare, the White House quietly noted the issuance of an executive order "Establishing the National Prevention, Health Promotion, and Public Health Council", in which the president, citing the “authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America” is now actively engaging in "lifestyle behavior modification" for American citizens that do not exhibit "healthy behavior."

At least initially, the 8 main verticals of focus will include: smoking cessation; proper nutrition; appropriate exercise; mental health; behavioral health; sedentary behavior; substance-use disorder; and domestic violence screenings.

Additionally, the president will establish yet another Advisory Group, composed of "experts" picked from the public health field, and one which tracks the successful uptake by the US population of the precepts for a better functioning society that the president deems important. Cosmo culture has just been adopted by the White House, where Big Brother is now in the business of counting calories.

From the Executive Order, defining the duties of the Council:
Sec. 3. Purposes and Duties. The Council shall:

(a) provide coordination and leadership at the Federal level, and among all executive departments and agencies, with respect to prevention, wellness, and health promotion practices, the public health system, and integrative health care in the United States;

(b) develop, after obtaining input from relevant stakeholders, a national prevention, health promotion, public health, and integrative health-care strategy that incorporates the most effective and achievable means of improving the health status of Americans and reducing the incidence of preventable illness and disability in the United States, as further described in section 5 of this order;

(c) provide recommendations to the President and the Congress concerning the most pressing health issues confronting the United States and changes in Federal policy to achieve national wellness, health promotion, and public health goals, including the reduction of tobacco use, sedentary behavior, and poor nutrition;

(d) consider and propose evidence-based models, policies, and innovative approaches for the promotion of transformative models of prevention, integrative health, and public health on individual and community levels across the United States;

(e) establish processes for continual public input, including input from State, regional, and local leadership communities and other relevant stakeholders, including Indian tribes and tribal organizations;

(f) submit the reports required by section 6 of this order; and

(g) carry out such other activities as are determined appropriate by the President.


For some reason item (g) seems awful supicious

The President’s Executive Order is a blatant (unconstitutional?) and forceful attempt to adjust the way Americans young and old think, behave, eat, and drink.

If you are feeling stressed-out, sad, confused, hungry, thirsty, bored, or tired, do you honestly trust President Obama and his “Advisory Group” to act in your best interests?
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby Shapley » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:54 am

Of course, they have only our best interests at heart. Their motives are always pure...

"A nation that takes control of the economy for the good of the people will end up taking control of the people for the good of the economy." They've taken control of the economy, via 'Health Care Reform', and now it's time to start cutting costs...

Dont get me wrong, I'm all for healthier lifestyles, but I'm not for government mandates enforcing them upon a 'free people'...
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby piqaboo » Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:32 pm

including the reduction of tobacco use, sedentary behavior


It dovetails nicely with gasoline prices. We cant afford to be sedentary - we must walk!
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:11 pm

Are you surprised? If so, why? You knew he was an elitist paternalistic socialist when he ran, and when you all elected him. He is behaving as I expected him to: running true to form.

The world is made up of two kinds of people: The group that agrees with Obama, and the misguided who need to be taken care of.

It's like the song about the woman who rescues the freezing snake. She got bit. So? She knew he was a snake before she took him in.
>^..^<
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby BigJon » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:09 pm

Selma in Sandy Eggo wrote:Are you surprised? If so, why? You knew he was an elitist paternalistic socialist

with a lot of expensive ideas and promises . . .
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:55 am

EARLY CANCER DETECTION: Suddenly, it’s not good for you after all.

“Now expert groups are proposing less screening for prostate, breast and cervical cancer and have emphasized that screening comes with harms as well as benefits. . . . What changed? . . . Is all this happening now because of worries over costs?”


Expect more of this in the months leading up to implementation of Obamacare.

Many people are concerned that the new “science” that has led to a sudden about-face on testing, coincident with the passage of ObamaCare, is driven by costs rather than patient welfare. This may be unfair, but one of the hazards of politicizing the health care system is that suspicions of, well, politicization of the health care system becomes unavoidable.

And if your suspicious (as OT use to be) not detecting cancer early has financial benefits for both the Medicare (too late for anything except hospice) and Social Security (earlier death) pools.

Personally, I don’t think this will get much traction. Too many people, including some here I suspect, know someone who was saved by early detection, my wife for one.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby piqaboo » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:25 pm

PSA screening for prostate cancer has been debated for much of the past 10 years.
It wont go away because of $$ - lawsuits.
However many researchers and physicians think its worked its way out of a job.
For nearly 20 years, we've been looking for the next great thing, that will replace PSA or make it really useful again.
We;ve looked at 'PSA velocity', % free psa (some utility there), psa vs age, TMPRSSS2:ERG chromosomal rearrangements, PCA3 mRNA,
and other possible markers.

PSA is not really all that anymore, tho once upon a time, it was amazing. It hasnt changed. The population has.
Its a good screening tool, but then people want biopsy, and there are risks to biopsy, including that repeated biopsy makes successful prostatectomy more difficult.

Breast cancer screening is not much better, but at least it relies on imaging.

Meanwhile, the labs keep plugging away at finding the next sampling method, and marker, to make clear cut decisions for people.
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:48 am

Piq,
Bullseye... the biopsy is the risk. not the simple blood test to let you know that your PSA level is high.
My neighbor has a history of Prostate cancer in his family and he closely monitored it over the years.

About 2 years ago, his PSA jumped and they were able to perform other tests, provide appropriate treatment
and today he is OK.

BTW - I just found out they are raising our premiums, deductibles, and co-pays for next year to mitigate the rising cost of health care....

The middle class is being squeezed to a level where it can't afford healthcare,.
It seems that it pays to be broke where the good old government picks up the tab at our expense. At least that way you get better health care... end of rant.... sorry.....

TM
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:58 pm

The middle class is being squeezed to a level where it can't afford healthcare,.
It seems that it pays to be broke where the good old government picks up the tab at our expense. At least that way you get better health care... end of rant.... sorry.....


I think it's been a long time since the middle class could afford healthcare. Without insurance few could afford it. Now that has become a problem. As I see the issue, healthcare is a socialized structure, from top to bottom, and health insurance has been free market. Socializing the insurance makes sense from a standpoint of consistency. What I don't like about that idea is it does nothing to contain the costs. We need free market competition in healthcare.
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:09 am

SEIU siphons ‘dues’ from Mich. Medicaid payments.

“Robert and Patricia Haynes live in Michigan with their two adult children, who have cerebral palsy. The state government provides the family with insurance through Medicaid, but also treats them as caregivers. For the SEIU, this makes them public employees and thus members of the union, which receives $30 out of the family’s monthly Medicaid subsidy.”
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: PC & Health Policing In America

Postby BigJon » Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:39 pm

Nice scam if you can work it.
Even a blind nut finds a squirrel once in a while. – Me! Feb 9, 2001
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