The Nanny State Begins....

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Re: The Nanny State Begins....

Postby Shapley » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:35 pm

analog wrote:Scooters for the obese is a reward, shouldn't the same logic buy them bigger clothes and Snickerdoodles?


I've often complained that obese people are given handicapped licenses so they can park in the handicapped spots near the door. It seems to me that walking from the far end of the lot would do them a lot of good, but I don't know their whole situation. However, the onus should be on their physicians not to reward them for their overeating by giving them access to the convenient parking, just because walking tires them out. Physicians, however, are afraid of being sued if their obese patients die of a heart attack walking the extra fifty yards because their physician refused to give them a handicapped referral, so they succumb to pressure and sign off on it. Fear of lawsuits drives a lot of our medical decisions. That's why they 'reward' them with scooters, too, I am sure.
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Re: The Nanny State Begins....

Postby BigJon » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:57 am

Nicole Marie wrote: (For some reason people often think I'm a Russian... :? not sure why?)

The first few time I saw you on the webcam I thought you were Russian too. Something about your cheekbones.
Even a blind nut finds a squirrel once in a while. – Me! Feb 9, 2001
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Re: The Nanny State Begins....

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:30 pm

This is depressing More than 70 per cent of Quebecers are in favour of legalizing euthanasia and assisted suicide

As we’ve seen in Belgium, most Euthanasia is done without the patient’s knowledge. Barbaric
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: The Nanny State Begins....

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:37 am

Opinion: Why we should regulate sugar like alcohol

Well, it was inevitable wasn’t it?

Don’t think for a moment that this doesn’t have the traction it needs in places like California. You get the calorie counts on fast-food menus now, but you also get moronic attempts to ban Happy Meals in San Francisco. In New York they want to tax sugary soft drinks.

The “Nanny-ists” are among life’s most persistent creature as C.S. Lewis observed:

“"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good
of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live
under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies.
The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may
at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end for they do so with the approval
of their own conscience."


Amen, brother
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: The Nanny State Begins....

Postby jamiebk » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:50 am

Personally, I relly upon the calorie counts at the restaurants and make food choices dependent upon them. We have a right to know what we are eating. The alternative is to simply not eat there of course. The sugar thing is ridiculous.
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Re: The Nanny State Begins....

Postby Shapley » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:09 pm

I'm aware there are people counting calories, and I am happy when restaurants help them by posting the calorie counts - voluntarily.

The issue is that not every good idea should be made a law.

Some restauarants, for example, put a lot of attention and detail into the design of their menus. I don't think it's right for the government to mandate that design. Some don't even want to include the price. I think they should have that freedom, just as you and have the freedom to not eat there.

There is nothing that prevents restaurants from posting calorie counts. I just don't think there should be a law mandating it, either. It's that 'freedom' thing again...
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Re: The Nanny State Begins....

Postby jamiebk » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:23 pm

Shapley wrote: It's that 'freedom' thing again...

You gave that up when the Patriot act was passed...
Jamie

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Re: The Nanny State Begins....

Postby Shapley » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:45 pm

jamiebk wrote:You gave that up when the Patriot act was passed...


Actually, we lost a big chunk of it during the Civil War, and another big chunk when they tried to fix the Great Depression. We've been giving up more and more of it ever since.

The Patriot Act, for all the ballyhooing, was just another step on the long road to Hell...
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Re: The Nanny State Begins....

Postby jamiebk » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:54 pm

This is Florida folks....NOT California!
################################
Fla. bill would ban buying sweets with food stampsupdated 2/5/2012 8:51:18 AM ET 2012-02-05T13:51:18

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — Florida's poor can use food stamps to buy staples like milk, vegetables, fruits and meat. But they can also use them to buy sweets like cakes, cookies and Jell-O and snack foods like chips, something a state senator wants stopped.

Sen. Ronda Storms, R-Valrico, also wants to limit other welfare funds, known as Temporary Assistance For Needy Families, from being used at ATMs in casinos and strip clubs and anywhere out of state. The bill comes after reports that the debit cards welfare recipients now receive were used in those places, as well as locations in Las Vegas and the Virgin Islands in a small percentage of cases, but the state does not track what items were purchased.

The bill recently passed a committee. A companion bill in the state House companion is being considered by a subcommittee.

The bill would also require the state to launch a culturally sensitive campaign to educate people about the benefits of a nutritious diet. Supporters say it would help recipients follow healthy eating habits and prevent taxpayer funds from being used to purchase luxury foods like bakery cakes when they can whip up a cheaper box mix.

"Most individuals using public assistance dollars are using the funds to get by and to provide for their families. However, we should do what we can to prevent dollars intended to help Florida's poorest families from being spent in the wrong places," Storms said in a statement.

But critics say the government shouldn't dictate what people eat.

"What I choose to ingest even though I may be on food stamps, that's at my discretion. I don't need government telling me what I can and cannot purchase," said Rep. Gwyndolen Clarke-Reed, a Pompano Beach Democrat who voted in committee against the bill (SB 1658). She said the bill is demeaning and invasive and she worries the education campaign would imply to "minorities and low-income folks that they're not intelligent enough to make selections on the foods they want."

The state Department of Children and Families, which oversees the food stamp program, would have to get federal approval from the U.S. Department of Agriculture to implement the bill if it passes, which may be tricky since no other states have been successful. The federal government spent nearly $5 billion last year to help about 3 million Floridians, as an increasing number are relying on the program in a sour economy. The average monthly benefit in the state is about $140 per person, according to the USDA.

In 2004, Gov. Tim Pawlenty tried to make Minnesota's welfare program the first in the country to ban recipients from buying candy with food stamps, but feds didn't go for it. Last year, New York City applied for a waiver to restrict the sale of soda and sugary drinks, but that was also denied. Iowa, California and Texas have proposed similar bills in the past two years, but nothing has been passed into law, according to at the National Conference of State Legislators.

The waivers often require cumbersome negotiations with federal officials and, if granted, cannot originally be applied statewide. The USDA requires a control group, meaning it must be started as a pilot program in a few counties, and be evaluated by an outside party, said Sheri Steisel, director of human services policy for NCSL.

The proposal comes months after another attempt to clamp down on welfare spending. Gov. Rick Scott and the Republican-led Legislature passed a law last year supporting drug testing for welfare recipients. The American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit on behalf of a military veteran and single father and it's now a class-action case.

U.S. District Judge Mary Scriven in Orlando issued an order temporarily blocking implementation of the law, which she found may violate a constitutional ban on unreasonable searches and seizures. The state is appealing the order that put testing on hold until Scriven can hold a full hearing.

Rep. Scott Plakon, R-Longwood, who sponsored the House bill, is working with others on the sugar issue before the bills goes to the next committee.

A group of bishops and welfare advocates met with lawmakers to oppose the bill they say is insulting to Florida's growing number of unemployed.

"The proposed legislation creates new hurdles for families already struggling to meet their most basic daily needs," said Debra Susie, executive director for Florida Impact and the Florida Partnership to End Childhood Hunger.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46270895/ns/us_news-life/#
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Re: The Nanny State Begins....

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:53 am

But critics say the government shouldn't dictate what people eat.


I quite agree. However, I don't see a problem with a government declining to pay for the chips. Or the Lotto ticket. It's enough that my extracted, filtered, and redirected tax dollars pay for the bread and the peanut butter and the glass of milk and the apple. I don't want to pay for the chips and the beer.
>^..^<
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Re: The Nanny State Begins....

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:10 am

jamiebk wrote:
Shapley wrote: It's that 'freedom' thing again...

You gave that up when the Patriot act was passed...


The DHS doesn't need the patriot act to target your constitutionally protected activity and label you as an "extremist"
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: The Nanny State Begins....

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:30 am

Selma in Sandy Eggo wrote: I don't want to pay for the chips and the beer.



I agree. If you take advantage of the food stamp program you are bound by the rules they impose. personally, I'd like to see them go further and impose even greater rules to encourage people to get off of food stamps. Alas, a dependent voting underclass is important to certain politicians.

My neighbor's 20 y.o. college student said that the student union at his (Texas college) were encouraging student to sign up for food stamps. According to him a large number of his fellow students signed up for the program. Apparently it's common at other colleges as well Some loopholes — like the one that allows Oregon SNAP members to use food stamps to buy Starbucks coffee so long as it's a Starbucks in a grocery store — have fueled opponents of the program.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: The Nanny State Begins....

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:42 pm

I don't want to pay for the chips and the beer.


I think this assumes you are taxed directly to fund food stamps, which is untrue. Some portion may come from taxes, and some from deficit spending--I see it as irrelevant. Choosing what stamp recipients may buy at a store or even if they may use them at a Starbucks is more an attempt to control them, rather than help them--and in my heart I believe the original purpose was to help. Denying them an occasional "luxury item" like a cup of coffee from Starbucks, a snack like a bag of chips, or even a beer takes some joy and pleasure out of their lives and leaves them with a dreary existence. Standing in line at the market with their children they would see the other baskets with chips and cookies. I couldn't say no to them.

I know some here will say they should get a job, or a better paying job. I can't know what their circumstances are but I'm sure they know they don't have enough money. Since I won't tell them what to do, they must find their own solutions.
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Re: The Nanny State Begins....

Postby Shapley » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:51 pm

My veiw is that when we help them, we should provide them that which is necessary to survive and little or nothing else. If we provide them luxuries, even small ones, it deprives them of motivation to do better. Why work for the luxuries in life when they can be obtained gratis?
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