CCTV on America's streets

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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby Shapley » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:27 pm

It occured to me the other day that I've been helping the governmen track myself and others via street cams. I've been doing this by tagging their images on facebook in my photo albums.

Facebook used face-recognition software which identifies faces and asks you to tag them in your pictures. When it first started, it would sometimes identify things that only remotely resembled faces, such as trees with knotholes in the right place or rocks with shadows, and ask: "Who is this?", expecting you to select one of your friends and link them to the photo. Of course, the software has become more capable, in that it seldoms selects non-human faces, but also in that it 'preselects' faces when you upload new photos. That is to say, after uploading new images, it picks out the faces and asks "who is this?" If it is a friend previously tagged, it will select their name and pre-fill the box. Some time ago, it was wrong as much as it was right, but now it is even more sophisticated and seems capable of recognizing even minor differences while correctly identifying the person.

I uploaded some old photos of my wife's family. The software apparently recognized that my wife and her mom look a lot alike, so it would pre-select her mother with my wife's link, asking if it was her. Now, however, it can distinguish between her and her mom.

And somewhere, in Utah or elsehwere, the government has tapped into that and stored all those tagged images so the CCTV on America's streets will know, when it sees that particular woman walking down a street anywhere in teh nation, that it is my wife, and the computer will note her location and the time she was there.

Our local antique store sells old photographs relatively cheap. I am inclined to purchase a bunch of them, scan them, upload them, and tag them as me and my family, in order to confuse the computers and the people that operate them...
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby DavidS » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:02 pm

Shapley,
Obviously CCTV, face recognition software etc. are tools that can be abused.
May we assume that the original intention was to improve city street security?
If so, "checks and balances", together with "transparent administration", have to be in place to ensure the employment of these technologies in a lawful and constitutional manner, and safeguard people's right to privacy etc.
What is the chance of this happening?
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby Shapley » Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:09 pm

"What is the chance of this happening?"

Pretty slim, methinks.

Studies Show Red Light Cameras Lead To Increase In Accidents. Despite this, the red-light cameras are here to stay. Why? The produce revenue, true, but they also apparently aid in the ever-increasing surveillance of the general public. Obviously, the government believes it has the right to know where you are traveling, and tapping of cell-phone metadata and red-light cameras provide them with a record of your movement.

But, of course, we are assured they won't access it without a warrant, and we are assured they can't get a warrant, even a top-secret one, without reasonable cause...
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby Trumpetmaster » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:45 am

Shapley wrote:"What is the chance of this happening?"

Pretty slim, methinks.

Studies Show Red Light Cameras Lead To Increase In Accidents. Despite this, the red-light cameras are here to stay. Why? The produce revenue, true, but they also apparently aid in the ever-increasing surveillance of the general public. Obviously, the government believes it has the right to know where you are traveling, and tapping of cell-phone metadata and red-light cameras provide them with a record of your movement.

But, of course, we are assured they won't access it without a warrant, and we are assured they can't get a warrant, even a top-secret one, without reasonable cause...



They have put those darn red light cameras up ALL over Long Island.
People slow down before intersections because they are afraid of getting nailed.
People SLAM on their brakes (because they drive too fast) to avoid running the red light to get a ticket.
YES... there has been a significant increase in accidents due to this... but alas ...... it is a revenue producer and will not go away.....

&

BIG BROTHER is always watching.... you just don't know it..........
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:29 am

May we assume that the original intention was to improve city street security?


I personally don't think so, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

CCTV had been shown to not reduce crime, period. People still commit murders on film; rob, rape, assault and commit other mayhem in broad daylight under the watchful eye of BB without any concern for the consequences. Several, in fact all, studies conducted since the Brits put up three cameras in a neighborhood in London in 1986 show that the cameras not only do not reduce crime but frequently are of insufficient resolution to help much in solving crimes caught on video. http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/files/ric/CDR ... llance.pdf

Regardless, the trend continues. As far back as 1997 there were reportedly 500,000 cameras in the London area http://www.library.ca.gov/CRB/97/05/crb97-005.pdf looking either ominous or guardian-like depending on what was in your soul. It turns out they were mostly pigeon roosts.

More modern cameras are, as Shapley pointed out, able to recognize faces so maybe an up-loadable database or mug shots would help identify criminals. But what about the face recognition system that puts his wife rather than her mother at the scene of a crime?

I'm not a fan of cameras on the street. I'm also not a fan of the IRS and that's not going to go away either so I guess I'll learn to live (and avoid as much as possible) both.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:44 am

Shapley wrote:"What is the chance of this happening?"

Pretty slim, methinks.

Studies Show Red Light Cameras Lead To Increase In Accidents. Despite this, the red-light cameras are here to stay. Why? The produce revenue, true, but they also apparently aid in the ever-increasing surveillance of the general public. Obviously, the government believes it has the right to know where you are traveling, and tapping of cell-phone metadata and red-light cameras provide them with a record of your movement.

But, of course, we are assured they won't access it without a warrant, and we are assured they can't get a warrant, even a top-secret one, without reasonable cause...


I'm usually a pessimist but on this issue recent activity has me more hopeful. Two things kill these cameras, loss of revenue and popular uprising. Several cities in Texas have forced the "revenue cameras" onto the ballots and they've been soundly routed. More, mostly small, municipalities are gathering signatures on petitions.

Several cities in Texas dropped the cameras when they were costing more than they generated in income. Here again, a concerted effort by citizens to avoid those intersections led to the downfall of those cameras. Finally, the up-tick in accidents at these camera locations also gt the citizens energized when they realized (as we did in Plano) that accidents at one intersection climbed 80% after the camera was installed, mostly caused by people trying to avoid being caught on the camera and getting rear ended.

I'm hopeful these dame things can be defeated or at least minimized.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby Shapley » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:11 am

Looks like Poway and San Diego may be doing the same:

Mayor Recommends End of Red-Light Camera Use
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:42 am

Alomg the same lines:

21ST CENTURY WATERGATE? CBS News confirms multiple breaches of Sharyl Attkisson’s computer.
““A cyber security firm hired by CBS News has determined through forensic analysis that Sharyl Attkisson’s computer was accessed by an unauthorized, external, unknown party on multiple occasions late in 2012. Evidence suggests this party performed all access remotely using Attkisson’s accounts. While no malicious code was found, forensic analysis revealed an intruder had executed commands that appeared to involve search and exfiltration of data. This party also used sophisticated methods to remove all possible indications of unauthorized activity, and alter system times to cause further confusion.”


if they can do that, couldn't they plant incriminating stuff on your computer, too? Of course the answer is a resounding "Yes!" Just one link to child porn would destroy any American's life in a eye-blink. Even a successful defense of your reputation would never remove the cloud of suspicion. More undermining of trust. . . .

Also from the article

T
he Justice Department issued this statement not long after Attkisson’s claims:
To our knowledge, the Justice Department has never compromised Ms. Attkisson’s computers, or otherwise sought any information from or concerning any telephone, computer, or other media device she may own or use.


"To our knowledge".......
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby Shapley » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:55 pm

As a curious aside to that, it is worth noting that the U.S. government was, at one time in the 1980s, the largest-known producer of child pornography in the United States. This came about because they were conducing massive sting operations, such as the Jacobson case, to catch child pornographers. They conducted these through the U. S. Postal service, which would run ads offering child pornography (though the ads did not specifically identify it as such) and, when a buyer ordered it, the Post Office would ship it and then they would arrest the person who ordered it, charging them with the possession thereof.

They maintained their supply of child pornography by confiscating it when importers attempted to bring it into the country. However, there was not a lot of it coming into the country so, in order to maintain the stock needed to continue the sting operations, they started printing copies of what they had.

To the best of my knowledge, no one at the printing office was ever charged for the crime. But it is indicative of the lengths to which they will go to prosecute offenders, even if they have to goad them into committing offenses.
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby Shapley » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:59 pm

By having now Googled 'Child Pornography' in order to find a link for that (I could not, I read about it in a magazine years ago), and because I have typed those words here, I'm reasonably sure I've set alarms ringing on some government monitoring computer now, and I can expect my computer to be searched...
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby barfle » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:54 pm

Shapley wrote:Facebook used face-recognition software which identifies faces and asks you to tag them in your pictures. When it first started, it would sometimes identify things that only remotely resembled faces, such as trees with knotholes in the right place or rocks with shadows, and ask: "Who is this?", expecting you to select one of your friends and link them to the photo. Of course, the software has become more capable, in that it seldoms selects non-human faces, but also in that it 'preselects' faces when you upload new photos. That is to say, after uploading new images, it picks out the faces and asks "who is this?" If it is a friend previously tagged, it will select their name and pre-fill the box. Some time ago, it was wrong as much as it was right, but now it is even more sophisticated and seems capable of recognizing even minor differences while correctly identifying the person.

All the more reason why facebook isn't on my list of distractions.
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby barfle » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:55 pm

Shapley wrote:By having now Googled 'Child Pornography' in order to find a link for that (I could not, I read about it in a magazine years ago), and because I have typed those words here, I'm reasonably sure I've set alarms ringing on some government monitoring computer now, and I can expect my computer to be searched...

And now that I've read it, I'm on the list, too!
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby Shapley » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:34 pm

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/17 ... ing-wrong/

WASHINGTON — Chances are, your local or state police departments have photographs of your car in their files, noting where you were driving on a particular day, even if you never did anything wrong.

Using automated scanners, law enforcement agencies across the country have amassed millions of digital records on the location and movement of every vehicle with a license plate, according to a study published Wednesday by the American Civil Liberties Union. Affixed to police cars, bridges or buildings, the scanners capture images of passing or parked vehicles and note their location, uploading that information into police databases. Departments keep the records for weeks or years, sometimes indefinitely.

As the technology becomes cheaper and more ubiquitous, and federal grants focus on aiding local terrorist detection, even small police agencies are able to deploy more sophisticated surveillance systems. While the Supreme Court ruled in 2012 that a judge’s approval is needed to track a car with GPS, networks of plate scanners allow police effectively to track a driver’s location, sometimes several times every day, with few legal restrictions.

The ACLU says the scanners assemble what it calls a “single, high-resolution image of our lives.”

“There’s just a fundamental question of whether we’re going to live in a society where these dragnet surveillance systems become routine,” said Catherine Crump, a staff attorney with the ACLU. The civil rights group is proposing that police departments immediately delete any records of cars not linked to a crime.
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:21 pm

I'm reasonably sure I've set alarms ringing on


Once I was trying to find some information about Badarian red ware and followed a link to a letter by Flinders Petrie--only it wasn't, it turned out to be an Islamist website in English with lots of threats like "death to America" on it. Later, a friend from the library quietly informed me someone was looking at the records of books I have checked out. Spooky world we live in.
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby Shapley » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:21 am

"Spooky world we live in."

Indeed, it is. I'll bet your nom de plume doesn't help any... ;)
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Re: CCTV on America's streets

Postby barfle » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:57 pm

About a year ago, I got a ticket from a traffic camera in Washington, DC, that said I was doing 56 in a 45 zone. It cost me something like $125.

Now I know why the DC license plates read "Taxation without representation."
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