Equals?

[Darth Mazinga]

That begs the question, <P>are you GlennHarry or GlennGould?....coffee is for closers.<P>

[Harry Potter]

Ha ah! Did i really do all that? Well, Mr. Gould wherever you are come out and defend me!<P>Harry

[Glenn Gould]

Dear Harry,<P>Don't pretend, you know that you are me. (wink - wink) Peter, Well put on everything else by the way. You must be aged, (and i don't mean in years spent on this planet) wise.<P>Glenn

[audiogirl]

Sorry, PB. We have a way of taking your topics and creating monsters, it seems.<P>Getting back to the semi-original discussion, it seems that everyone has a certain "period" in which they think the best music was composed. That's okay.<P>Being a musical theater fanatic, I have stated that the composers of "Les Miserables" are two that may be considered great in a few more years. I am completely non-objective in this opinion. <BR> <BR>So, everybody, which music-makers do YOU think, from the 20th century, will stand the test of time? <BR>

[serge urtizberea]

I know that we oughtn't discuss this too deeply here, but I'm still intrigued by EJA's claim that beauty and perfection are realizable by God alone. If this is a religious tenet, I'll stop prying and risking the wrath, but if this is simply an Aristotle-said-it-so-it-gots-to-be-true thing, then we must remember that there was a whole series of philosophies that grew with those who disagreed or thought different. While it has little to do with the matter here, the idea that a perfect music, or a perfect tree, or a perfect body, or a perfect face, whatever, exists in the unknowable realm does us little good in the here and now. Perhaps it would be safer and saner to deal with what we can see. <P>Yeah, maybe I'm being ironic, Ben. I consider Wagner to be the end result of romanticism, not the apotheosis by a LONG shot. The perfect (oh, here I go) romantic is Beethoven, and the best last example of r. is either Dvorak or, well, I guess just him then.<P>p.s. I meant to say Aristotle, right?<P>p.p.s. I'm looking forward, Peter.

[BenG]

Yes, apotheosis was probably the wrong word, but it gets rare use and I just couldn't resist. I like words like that and I'm always on the lookout for more. <P>Brahms considered himself 'the last of his kind,' i.e. writer of Romantic music and since Brahms was largely responsible for bringing Dvorak on the scene, perhaps we could consider him the last of the last. But then again, what about Rachmaninoff? I would consider him the last of the last of the last.<P>Man can CONCEIVE of perfection even if he himself is chalk full of imperfection. He may not be able to draw a perfect circle, but the concept of a perfect, universal circle resides in his mind...along with a perfect universal tree and so forth. On the other hand, take one of Beethoven's masterpieces. Can you imagine it any other way? It seems like it HAD to have been that way...like he was taking dictation from God...it seems so...well, PERFECT!

[EJA_2]

Sorry everyone for being so late to reply. I haven't had time. For the most part, the thread seems to be progressing nicely, so I will try to let sleeping dogs lie. Still, I think that if GG wants to insult me publicly with his <I>ad hominem</I> arguments, he ought to permit me to respond publicly. Nevertheless, out of respect to the other posters, I will not respond here, at least not now. <P>On a lighter note, I just want to say that if I am "diluted," perhaps it's because I've been spending too much time in the swimming pool. <P>Oh, and Nicole, [Sorry folks, I hate it when people remove parts of a post that are referred to later on in the thread, but this was apparently very offensive, so I have deleted it. And, once again, my apologies to Nicole. Insulting her was unintentional. --EJA]<P>Also, I would like to take opportunity to thank GG for the compliment. No one has ever accused me of eloquence before.<P>And, ah, Audiogirl, I hope I answered your question satisfactorily, albeit a mite more thoroughly than some cared for. <P>Mazinga, I appreciate all your humor, particularly in some other threads that left me ROFL! Well, almost, anyway. <P>Peter, I perceive that we hold very different views and I suspect there is very little profit for either of us in quarreling about our differences. Yes, I think your wrong. If I thought you were right, I'd think like you. My, this gets complex . . . <P>TallBlondeFlutist, thank you for your support. I trust you know whence my boldness proceeds. Frankly, I try to be diplomatic here on the board. Sometimes, however, I get tired of being wishy-washy.<P>Serge, perhaps I should clarify by saying that I believe that the ultimate of these concepts is not achievable by man, but certainly man is able to achieve them in some degree. Moreover, my point was that God is the only standard by which, shall we say, the polarity of human achievment can be achieved. By polarity I am referring to whether it is contrary to or parrallel with God's standard of the concept.<P><BR> -- EJA <p>[This message has been edited by EJA (edited 04-05-2001).]

[Darth Mazinga]

<P><BR>you are he, and he is me, and we are all together....see who she run, see how she snyed, I am crying.<BR>

[EJA_2]

Hey, Mazinga,<BR>What'dya do? Forget the password for your alternate personality? <P> -- EJA

[Peter]

Glenn,<P>I am still on the 'right' side of 40, although some assume from that that my birthday must be Feb. 29th!<P>Audiogirl,<P>your question is very broad: On the one hand you could say Stravinsky; on the other you could say The Singing Nun (has already stood the test of 40 years of time)! And everyone inbetween. If your question means from the world of musical theatre, then, apart from the other obvious candidates, I recall that my very first post on these boards was to state that the greatest composer of the 20th century might well have been Richard Rodgers, since he unquestionably wrote more world-famous melodies than anyone else, by a considerable margin. Shos was immediately taken aback by my post, & we've been pals ever since! <P>Serge,<P>I sent the e-mail to your home.com address. Let me know if you no longer use this.

[Darth Mazinga]

<P>The Great Mazinga is here, were are symbiotic, but not one in the same.<BR>Always two there are...a master and an apprentice.<P>

[Peter]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darth Mazinga:<BR><B> <BR>you are he, and he is me, and we are all together....see who she run, see how she snyed, I am crying.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>HAA!! Proof positive of your TRUE identity, sir! The wonky Beatles lyric has given you away (don't worry, your secret's safe with me)

[~Leslie]

Okay, I can't even begin to sort out this mess. Ghost posters, imposters, I mean, WHAT THE ???<P>Darth, I got you sussed out, yer the Walrus, and you like Elvis.<P>Glenn Gould, I'm gonna get U2. One false move and this American jazzer's gonna shoot straight from the hip, and you won't even know where it came from!<P><BR>Audiogal, EJ, Prov, Shos, Serge, Peter, yes tape should be landing cross the Mersey by now, Clare, all, Haillo, I'm around, but I gotta go woodshedding and chop some wood.<P>Chop, chop, chop, chop.<P>Oh yea, that remind's me Keokime, What would Chopin do? Chop, of course, how else did he get those chops??!!<P><BR>So uh, what was the topic?

[Darth Mazinga]

<P>Your lack of faith is disturbing. You assume too much Peter. The order of The Great Mazinga are Invincible Guardians of Bulletin Board Freedom and legion in spirit. When one falls, the next shall rise.<P>

[serge urtizberea]

What on earth are you all talking about?<P><BR>Peter, I never had a home.com account! I never even heard of home.com. My address is ludwig_rocks@hotmail.com and I have no others. What address did you send it to, exactly? And please re-send me your message! (I'm being a pain in the ass, aren't I?).

[Nicole Marie]

EJA-<P>If your definition of a Goddess is based on a haircut then who that wonderful person is...then I hope our paths Never cross. <P>This post started as a talk about modern and classical composers. Modern composers music is something I enjoy very much. But if this topic is going to turn into you insulting people, then I will not be part of this.<P>If your defintion of a woman is lipstick wearing, long haired then you need to wake up. I ask that you Never address me on this page. You have insulted my femininity.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Nicole Marie (edited 04-05-2001).]

[treebeau]

zzzzzzzzzzz...huh, what ?<P>Is it over ?<P>No ?<P>OK. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz<P>

[Sir Stewart]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nicole Marie:<BR><B>Good point Glenn!<P>Back to the question Peter asked about why I enjoy multi media/contemporary performance better....well...<P>I enjoy the music more and I enjoy being part of a composers concept that may be different from anything I've seen before. <BR>When I perform in mulit-media programs, it's about being part of music, stage, pre-recordings played along with your live performance, sometimes costumes, dancers! You name it I've performed with it. <P>One performance I was in required me to learn dance steps so I could dance with my bass! We did lifts and everything.<P>There is also a bass performance piece, that requires the double bass instrument to be dressed in a womans dress. The player acts as a man at a bar trying to pick up this woman (the double bass) and well...it gets racey from there. But to me that is more exciting to perform then a symphony.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Isn't the 'performance' just as important as the music? Maybe more so?<P>My mother used to be part of ballroom dance duo. Evening gown, top hat and tails. Fred Ataire stuff ya know? At the end of the dance my mom and her partner would take their bows and when my mom took off her top hat, her long blonde hair would fall out and only then did the audience realize they had been watching two women dance! The audience would howl! As a kid, I thought it was awesome.<P>Sir Stew<P><p>[This message has been edited by Sir Stewart (edited 04-05-2001).]

[Glenn Gould]

Sir Stew,<P>That is astounding and grand! Thanks for that story... and Nicole, you are very clearly a lady. It wouldn't matter if you were bald to the skin.<P>Glenn

[EJA_2]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nicole Marie:<BR><B>You have insulted my femininity.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I am REALLY sorry. I once read some good advice about never trying to be fascetious on the Internet. I should have taken it. <P>I was TEASING you. I went overboard. I'm sorry. I'm not real smart about knowing when to stop. <P>I didn't mean what I said as an insult. For the record, I do not have any doubt of your femininity. I guess I didn't have your sense of humor pegged correctly. I really regret what I said. You're still my favorite host on beethoven.com. I hope I didn't poison the well.<P> <BR> -- EJA<p>[This message has been edited by EJA (edited 04-05-2001).]