Projects

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Projects

Postby barfle » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:35 am

Well, there seem to be a few do-it-yourselfers hanging around here, and since I was invited to start a new thread, here goes.

I've noted that I have so many projects going on that I live "in the projects." Actually, it's a nice house, but natually, it wasn't quite how we wanted it when we moved in, so my wife and I have undertaken a few projects to improve its suitability for us.

The laundry room saga has been mentioned on this bulletin board several times over the past year, but to recap, our house has a laundry room in the basement. It is basically a long hallway going behind a bathroom, which then has a niche for the appliances to the right side. In the far right corner is a thing called a sump, which is basically an ugly hole in the floor with a leaky plastic bucket set into it. It is used to collect water, mostly from an outdoor stairwell that goes to a doorway into the basement. Water is supposed to disperse from the sump into the soil around the house, but in some cases, too much water enters, and there is a pump with a float valve that will pump it out into the yard. It's ugly, and one problem that we had in the house is loss of electrical power when the weather turned bad.

The niche for the appliance had a laundry sink right in the middle of it - between where the washer and dryer were installed. I don't know who thought the idea of symmetry was more important than convenience, but I thought it was just plain dumb to have it there. Also, the water supply for the sink was tapped off the supply for the washer with hoses, which I felt was tacky.

So there's the original situation: A big ugly wet hole in the floor, and a sink in a most obnoxious location. So, being too ignorant to realize just how much I was biting off, I decided to rearrange the furniture. :eek:

There is a four-wide cabinet mounted above the appliances, which had to be removed for me to get to the wall behind it and mess with the plumbing. That came off pretty easily, so I felt confident to continue. There was also a soffit surrounding the cabinet, made of drywall on steel studs, and that was pretty easy to turn into dumpster fodder. When I took off the layer of drywall covering the plumbing, I found several generations of construction, and since I also wanted that wall to be fairly soundproof (since my media room is on the other side of it), and since it wasn't a load-bearing wall, I decided to knock the whole thing down and do it my way.

I had to be reasonably careful of the plumbing and electrical while I was demolishing the wall, but all that came out without a problem. I put in studs, staggered and offset for sound isolation. I was able to reuse some of the studs I had removed, but since it was originally a haphazard setup, not much wood was long enough. Maybe it'll go into the fireplace.

I've done plenty of plastic drain pipe and plastic irrigation pipe in the past, so reworking the drain was pretty simple. I've also done a moderate amount of sweating (soldering) copper supply lines, but when we moved from California, I sold off my blowtorch, so I bought a new one - GOOD IDEA. That made sweating the supply lines a piece of cake.

During that process, though, I had to shut off the water to the house, and one time I tried to turn it back on, the valve wouldn't work. It was a gate valve, and the stem pulled out of the gate. The valve was VERY hard to turn anyway, so getting a new one was one more improvement. Fortunately, I was able to turn off the water at the meter, and the pipe with the valve was removable with a union on one end and a plastic coupling on the other, so I could set it up horizontally while I installed the new valve.

Some of the issues I faced while working on this part of the project were keeping the washer and dryer available for use, in spite of all the construction. Except for the time when the valve to the house broke, up to this point, we always had the appliances available when I stopped working at night. I had to replumb the supply for both the washer and the sink (keeping hot and cold on the correct sides), I had to replumb the drains for both the washer and the sink, I had to rewire the outlet for the washer, and I had to rewire the 220V outlet for the dryer. I also had to keep a dryer vent coupling available.
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Re: Projects

Postby OperaTenor » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:33 am

And we are at what stage?

:D

Pictures man, pictures!

BTW, where does the vent line run? Does it pipe it out to above ground?
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Re: Projects

Postby treebeau » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:05 am

I believe a vent line HAS to be above ground because it vents into the air, and air pressure is important in a DWV (drain/waste/vent) system. Normally you see a vent line sticking out through the roof.

Regards,
Tim B.
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Re: Projects

Postby treebeau » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:12 am

My first foray in this thread.

Since I post this stuff in my blog, I will simply give you links to the blog entries.

I'm repairing my logsplitter. The engine works but it is not turning the hydraulic pump. The problem is a broken "Lovejoy coupler" mounted to the pump shaft. Replacing them "should be" easy and 8 years ago I did it with no trouble at all. This time, trouble.
LJ coupling
Logsplitter repair
Logsplitter repair, part 2

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Re: Projects

Postby OperaTenor » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:47 am

Originally posted by treebeau:
I believe a vent line HAS to be above ground because it vents into the air, and air pressure is important in a DWV (drain/waste/vent) system. Normally you see a vent line sticking out through the roof.

Regards,
Tim B.
Hi Tim,

I meant the dryer vent. It would seem to me that it too would need to go outside, but would be a long, labyrinthine path to get outside from down in the basement. And, given how crud builds up in those vent lines, it'd be a royal pain to keep clear.

As for the grey water drain and venting, yes indeed. I hate to think of the noxious burps that would result from improperly venting that line.

:puke:

<small>[ 11-22-2005, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>
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Re: Projects

Postby barfle » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:53 am

Originally posted by OperaTenor:
And we are at what stage?
I believe I'm within a couple weekends of completion. I decided to stop writing and do a little work.
Originally posted by OperaTenor:
Pictures man, pictures!
I've been too busy with the laundry room to activate my new website for hosting pictures! :(
Last edited by barfle on Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Projects

Postby OperaTenor » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:57 am

Hi Tim,

Another suggestion for popping that coupling half off, which will only work if there is sufficient clearance around the motor(?) on the other side of the plate. How about drilling and tapping two or three holes in the plate, and then using bolts to jack the coupling half away?

Another suggestion for a penetrant is Tri-Flow. Any self-respecting bicycle shop should stock it.
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Re: Projects

Postby barfle » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:08 pm

Tim, there's always the possibility of a hacksaw blade to cut a line down the coupler parallel to the shaft, then splitting it off with a chisel. Slow, tedious, but almost anything beats buying something new when you can fix something old.
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Re: Projects

Postby treebeau » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:11 pm

OOh, I understand what you meant about using bolts to push against the coupler THROUGH the red mounting plate. But alas, there isn't room on the PUMP side of that plate.


Just today I picked up a can of "PB Blaster" for soaking rusty connections. Auto parts stores stock it. Low cost. Will let it work over the next few days before I resort to drilling and tapping.

Thanks and regards,
Tim B.
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Re: Projects

Postby OperaTenor » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:20 pm

Originally posted by barfle:
Tim, there's always the possibility of a hacksaw blade to cut a line down the coupler parallel to the shaft, then splitting it off with a chisel. Slow, tedious, but almost anything beats buying something new when you can fix something old.
Oh man, it looks to me like there'd be ~1/2" of stroke to saw through something harder than my head(looks like carbon steel). I'd start calculating what my time was worth at that point........

I forgot if I was looking at the pump or the motor, so I picked one, keeping the 50/50/90 rule in mind.

Perhaps try picking the brain of a local hydraulic repair guy? I'll bet he's run into this kind of stuff more times than I've been wrong.
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Re: Projects

Postby OperaTenor » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:22 pm

Originally posted by treebeau:
OOh, I understand what you meant about using bolts to push against the coupler THROUGH the red mounting plate. But alas, there isn't room on the PUMP side of that plate.


Thanks and regards,
Tim B.
I have another idea: How about drilling just one hole, and it doesn't have to be perpendicular, to enable using a pin punch to persuade the coupling half to let go? Less clearance required, and it can be angled in. From the last photo, it looks as though there is enough offset between the pump and coupling that you just might get away with one hole.

<small>[ 11-22-2005, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>
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Re: Projects

Postby barfle » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:30 pm

I left off with the following scene: The wall is studded and replumbed, the wiring is in place, but the dryer vent is simply a long piece of dryer hose wound over the top plate of the wall.

In order to stagger-stud the wall, I had to widen both the header and footer boards, so I attached a 2x2 to each one, making the wall about six inches thick. When you figure that a dryer vent pipe is really four inches in diameter, and it has to fit in a wall that has 3-3/4" of space, there is another advantage to making the wall thicker.

In my Internet browsings, I had found a neat device that made the dryer vent opening in the wall much tidier. I know I posted a link to it in another thread - perhaps I'll dig it up sometime and repost it here. It's a drawn metal pan that fits between the studs with a hole for the vent pipe in the top and a sloping bottom. The idea is that the hose that always seems to kink up behind the dryer would fit into the pan, allowing you to get the dryer several inches closer to the wall - not a bad thing with this wall getting thicker!

Another thing I discovered in my Internet prowling was a building code that gave a formula for maximum length of dryer vent pipe, and how much right angle and 45 degree bends would add to the effective length. If you exceeded that number, you needed to add a booster fan. I was well over that amount, so I bought a booster fan. Of course, in the instructions for the fan, I discovered that, if your installation was similar to mine (pretty much that the fan wasn't in a straight line ABOVE the dryer), that you also needed a secondary lint filter. So I ordered that, too.

What I had done as far as rearranging the furniture is concerned was to move the sink to the left, put the washer in the middle, and the dryer to the right. The sink would be close to the sump, so the boat bilge pump I was planning on using as a backup to the powered pump wouldn't have a long rise to overcome. The best laid plans... :o

I installed the booster fan above where the cabinet would be reinstalled, as high as I could get it, with quite a bit of the structure between the floor joists. I had to install an electrical outlet for it, and figured that if it needed servicing, I could pull the cabinet back down - not easy, but doable. The actual dryer vent pipe ran from the pan I described above into the soffit surrounding the cabinet where I installed the secondary lint filter, then up the side of the cabinet, over the cabinet to the booster fan, where it joined up with the original vent pipe. Quite a routing, but acceptable with the booster fan.

The fan, BTW, has a pressure activated switch. When the dryer starts to vent, the fan comes on and runs for ten minutes, when it shuts off and checks the pressure switch. If the dryer is still running, it comes back on. It works quite well, but when the dryer stops, the booster fan may take another ten minutes to stop.

I also needed to run a drain hose from the booster fan (the air it handles is usually pretty moist, and condensation happens in Virginia) to the washer hookup box.

I put the drywall up on the studs on the laundry room side of the wall only for the time being. There's a splice in the dryer power line that I want to replace when I redo my media room, and I'm going to use special sound reduction wallboard when I do that, so there's really no call to finish the other side of the wall just yet.

I went to install the cabinet, leaving adequate drop for the booster fan drain, and I discovered that the washer top wouldn't clear the cabinet. Well, that wouldn't do, so I pulled the booster fan and fidgeted it around between the joists so I got another four inches of clearance. BTW, I did a good enough job mounting that cabinet that round things placed on the shelves don't roll. I'm pretty proud of my level.

My wife was an active participant in this project, at least from a design standpoint. She figured that the laundry room would be a good place to try out new skills, and she wants a fair amount of ceramic tile in the house, so she picked up some samples. We made sure the washer lid, on top of the tile, would still clear the cabinet, and I pulled the linoleum off the floor. The linoleum took about ten minutes to get up, but there was an underlayment of some sort that took another month of scraping to pick up. Seriously tedious work, and I own about six different scrapers trying to get one that would actually do the job. I ended up with a 4" razor blade scraper. Did I mention that it was tedious?

I noted earlier that there was a long hallway leading behind a bathroom to the niche with the appliances. The bathroom was added after the house was built, and it had plastic supply lines to it. I'd heard a few horror stories about that particular plastic rupturing, and I figured, what the hell, let's replace that as long as I've torn up the rest of the room already. So I pulled off the wallboard from the laundry room side of the bathroom, punched a hole in the ceiling of a "basement family room" (really a staging area for all the crap I'm putting into the laundry, and storage for all the crap I have yet to unpack after four years in the house) to find where the plastic tapped the copper supply for the rest of the house. Another weekend of sweating copper tubing, and another six weekends of wallboard finishing (my wife is pretty picky about wall surfaces, although in this house, she's disappointed in mamy of the original walls, since they are quite prone to having nails pop through the surface).

So, at this point, we have the plumbing done for both the laundry and the bathroom, all the drywall is up except for the soffit around the cabinet, and the floor is bare concrete. The dryer works well, the washer fills and drains well, the laundry sink is in position, but there's just a board over the sump.

More to follow...
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Re: Projects

Postby piqaboo » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:58 pm

Ah, bare concrete floors.... so familiar. :D

"as far as rearranging the furniture is concerned was to move the sink to the left, put the washer in the middle, and the dryer to the right. "
Why did you choose that arrangement? I'd prefer dryer in the middle, so the wet stuff never had far to travel. Was it dictated by the location of sump, plumbing, etc?

Projects: nothing so major, but OT had to dismantle a door frame to move his new desk in. My goal is to terrace our backyard, which is pretty steeply sloped. (Hence OT's installation of our beautiful staircase - a project which took us a year to complete, even tho it only took ~5 full days of work, and 3 of shopping.) Since the house has remained stable at the top of the yard for 50 years, and since the land outside the fence is protected, we'll have an interesting saga of permitting, landscape architecht consultations, and lots of sweat, swearing and re-do's to relay if we ever get started.
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: Projects

Postby analog » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:36 pm

Originally posted by treebeau:
OOh, I understand what you meant about using bolts to push against the coupler THROUGH the red mounting plate. But alas, there isn't room on the PUMP side of that plate.


Tim -


Again, no offense intended if this is too elementary. Upon re-reading thread i'm pretty sure it is.


yep it was. Removed it. analog

<small>[ 11-22-2005, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: analog ]</small>
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Re: Projects

Postby OperaTenor » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:44 pm

Ahhh, the stairway......

First, here is the old stairway, made of railroad ties, some staked, others loose. Also pictured is another ongoing project; Iceplant abatement(so far, the iceplant is ahead :( )

<img src="http://www.operatenor.100megs24.com/stair2.jpg" alt=" - " />

This is the new stairway, on the opposite side of the yard(that way so both stairways can still be used if need be). It is comprised of 16" x 16" flag stones, with 6" x 6" x 16" slump block for risers. Two-wide makes for a 32" wide step, which is a very useful width. Even though the hillside seems stable, it is made up of predominantly hard-packed sand, so we were concerned with the stability of the steps. This was the hard part. If you notice, the risers overlap and sit on top of the treads. We used a big masonry drill to drill four hole into each step, and drove a 2' length of 1/2" rebar into each hole to anchor the step into the hillside, then packed the voids in the risers with dirt.

Poetically, and I swear it is a complete coincidence, it is 39 steps.

<img src="http://www.operatenor.100megs24.com/stair1.jpg" alt=" - " />


The other big project this last summer was building a fence to keep Altoid from tumbling down the slope in the back yard. She may have fun doing it in a couple of years, but for now it's fairly dangerous. The intention was to build a fence that would be temporary, coming down after Altoid and possibly a sibling were old enough to only go down the slope on purpose. Father in law offered free lumber for the job, and it ended up dictating the final form of the fence. Most of the lumber was pressure treated 2x4's and 4x4's, which was much stouter than I would have chosen for a temporary fence, but it was "free", so I went with it. With wood, I thought it best to use welded wire. Even so, by the time the frame was finished, it was nuclear blast-proof.

Since it was pressure treated wood, and therefore toxic, painting was necessitated. We tried to choose a color that would nominally blend with the flora in the canyon, to try to minimize the view obstruction created by the fence.

<img src="http://www.operatenor.100megs24.com/fence1.jpg" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://www.operatenor.100megs24.com/fence3.jpg" alt=" - " />

Here's where I feel I was pretty clever. In order to mount a latch for my gates(one at each end), I mounted pieces of 2x4 to the adjacent chain link fence with a couple of big u-bolts. With the type of gate latch I used, it will allow for movement of the fence and still latch securely, so it's okay that the mount moves with the chain link.

<img src="http://www.operatenor.100megs24.com/fence2.jpg" alt=" - " />

This is a shot of the slope Piq referred to. It's `40 degrees. also pictured is anothe future project: Possibly jacking up the sagging corner of the deck, replacing the rusty welded wire on it, and painting it to match the fence.

<img src="http://www.operatenor.100megs24.com/slope.jpg" alt=" - " />


I'm never bored......
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Re: Projects

Postby analog » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:56 pm

The Analog photo on Frapper map ---

http://www.frappr.com/beethoven/photo/575904

A couple Christmases ago I figured the teenage boys would be getting bored after a week without school. So for Christmas I gave them each sixteen inexpensive little speakers and two sheets of plywood. They did better than I expected - used only half the plywood and added tweeters, and carpeted the enclosures. The speakers are actually fairly decent little woofers that go out to 10Khz and the sound is amazingly good for the cost. And it kept the boys entertained for a week, first building them then showing off to their friends.
:)

<small>[ 11-22-2005, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: analog ]</small>
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Re: Projects

Postby treebeau » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:17 pm

analog,

Thanks for the info. I have a real steering wheel puller and am sure to use that if the PB Blaster doesn't work. I've read the "unsolicited testimonials" on their web site and am encouraged. But we'll see.

OT,

Wow! Tons o'work there! Good thing Altoid isn't a horse or goat or other livestock. I have heard that you nail wire fencing (or wooden cross beams, etc) on the INSIDE of the wooden structure so the livestock doesn't push it off trying to get through. In the case of your fence, I know it looks better, though.

Regards,
Tim B.
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Re: Projects

Postby OperaTenor » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:49 pm

Originally posted by treebeau:
I have heard that you nail wire fencing (or wooden cross beams, etc) on the INSIDE of the wooden structure so the livestock doesn't push it off trying to get through. In the case of your fence, I know it looks better, though.

Regards,
Tim B.
:busted:

Yup, did it on the outside for looks, plus less pointy bits for Altoid to get snagged on. That whole bleeding, crying child stuff is really annoying, not to mention inconvenient.

:roll:
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Re: Projects

Postby BigJon@Work » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:23 pm

Hey Tim,

This may be one of those projects you punt and take it to the pros. Any automotive shop worth its salt will have the right tools and a press to get that off in no time. Just stop first at Tim Hortons or Dunken Donuts and get a dozen with some hot cuppa.
"I am a 12 foot lizard." GCR Jan 31, 2006
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Re: Projects

Postby barfle » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:24 pm

Originally posted by piqaboo:
I'd prefer dryer in the middle, so the wet stuff never had far to travel. Was it dictated by the location of sump, plumbing, etc?
I certainly could have done that, but to be honest, the "laundry sink" we had at the time is really more of a "slop sink."

I can't guarantee how long prodigy will continue to host this page, but for at least the time being, there are a few views of the original problems.

Originally posted by piqaboo:
Projects: nothing so major, but OT had to dismantle a door frame to move his new desk in. My goal is to terrace our backyard, which is pretty steeply sloped. (Hence OT's installation of our beautiful staircase - a project which took us a year to complete, even tho it only took ~5 full days of work, and 3 of shopping.) Since the house has remained stable at the top of the yard for 50 years, and since the land outside the fence is protected, we'll have an interesting saga of permitting, landscape architecht consultations, and lots of sweat, swearing and re-do's to relay if we ever get started.
The air in the laundry room has turned blue on many occasions.
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