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Re: Opera

Postby The Great Carouser » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:52 am

Originally posted by operatenor:
... making her feelings seem insincere and shallow."
Insincere and shallow?!! In an opera?? Never!!
:D
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Re: Opera

Postby dkm32 » Tue Jan 20, 2004 12:44 pm

Originally posted by operatenor:
Donna, Big, LOL!, and thanks for the back-handed compliment, Donna! :D
I knew that Tenors had egos...not nearly as big as Sopranos...but egos still. This is ridiculous!!! Is there only one Tenor in San Diego that I could have been refering to??? Course, if it finally got a response out of OT, I guess it was worth it.
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Re: Opera

Postby Marye » Tue Jan 20, 2004 1:36 pm

How good to see your name again Donna... :D Don't stay away for too long, please.
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Re: Opera

Postby OperaTenor » Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:32 pm

Originally posted by dkm32:
Is there only one Tenor in San Diego that I could have been refering to???
WHAT?!! There other tenors in San Diego?!! :D
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Re: Opera

Postby shostakovich » Tue Jan 20, 2004 6:50 pm

I like Dai Bread's version, but here's:

TURANDOT WITH THE SHOS ENDING.

How about Liu ATTEMPTS suicide, the shock of what she does restores her father's sight, and he tends to her recovery? When Calaf discovers what happened, he comes to his senses, and takes Liu and her father away. Turandot, realizing she's not such a prize, sings her remorseful "What a Bitch I've Been" aria.
It could become one of my favorites.
Shos

<small>[ 01-20-2004, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: shostakovich ]</small>
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Re: Opera

Postby bignaf » Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:09 pm

Dai, did you ever hear or watch Turandot? it's not a set piece opera and your preponderence of set arias would be wildly out of place (epecially a Queen of the night aria :roll: whatever you mean by that). notice that none of the so-called arias in Turandot remains solo for long. "signore ascolta" has the tenor and Timur interrupting. and it is very short. "non piangere" is very short and continues into the ensemble+chorus section that followa and developes it. Nessun Dorma has the chorus interrupting in the middle and is very short and doesn't have an ending. hte only extended solo is Turandot's proclamation and explanation which is not considered an aria by most and has choral interruptions and is an integral part of the scene. Turnadot is all one piece. (and no queen of the night!!!) I guess your comment was a joke...
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Re: Opera

Postby bignaf » Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:11 pm

Originally posted by shostakovich:
I like Dai Bread's version, but here's:

TURANDOT WITH THE SHOS ENDING.

How about Liu ATTEMPTS suicide, the shock of what she does restores her father's sight, and he tends to her recovery? When Calaf discovers what happened, he comes to his senses, and takes Liu and her father away. Turandot, realizing she's not such a prize, sings her remorseful "What a Bitch I've Been" aria.
It could become one of my favorites.
Shos
Timur isn't Liu father, sorry. and the suicide part is complete and one of the highlights of the opera.
(defending the sanctity of my favorite opera :D )

<small>[ 01-20-2004, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: bignaf ]</small>
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Re: Opera

Postby dai bread » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:07 pm

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the love ending is wrong.

IMO that's why Puccini couldn't finish his duet. It runs slap bang head first into all the preceding material.

I like the Balcony Scene, Piqaboo. Reminds me of all sorts of things, particularly Tosca's trampoline. ;)

For me, the story does matter. If someone is singing in such-and-such a mood, I want to know why. Otherwise it might as well be a lieder recital. And yes, I do find most operatic stories trite. I grin & bear it for the sake of the music.

<small>[ 01-20-2004, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: dai bread ]</small>
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: Opera

Postby bignaf » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:23 pm

thing is, even opera has its own kind of sense. every character has his/her owm characterization in music -- if the opera is good at all. the Alfano ending (and Puccini's probably) destroys that sense. it's just that Puccini did too good a job to portray her before. especially her silence until the second act. her entrance always accompanied by her theme but she not singing. excellent portrayal of her beauty, her majesty, her isolation, her cruelty, and her inhumanity.
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Re: Opera

Postby dai bread » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:25 pm

Originally posted by bignaf:
Dai, did you ever hear or watch Turandot? it's not a set piece opera and your preponderence of set arias would be wildly out of place (epecially a Queen of the night aria :roll: whatever you mean by that). notice that none of the so-called arias in Turandot remains solo for long. "signore ascolta" has the tenor and Timur interrupting. and it is very short. "non piangere" is very short and continues into the ensemble+chorus section that followa and developes it. Nessun Dorma has the chorus interrupting in the middle and is very short and doesn't have an ending. hte only extended solo is Turandot's proclamation and explanation which is not considered an aria by most and has choral interruptions and is an integral part of the scene. Turnadot is all one piece. (and no queen of the night!!!) I guess your comment was a joke...
Well, it wasn't a joke as such. It was off-hand though, as I never expected anyone to like it. Seems a lot of you do, and if I was to actually develop an ending it would, of course, be in keeping with the style of the rest of the opera.

And you're right, it's along time since I saw anything of "Turandot" (on TV) and I haven't paid attention to its structure.

The "Queen of the Night" aria is Mozart's very florid piece which "Amadeus" (I think) took off beautifully by having his landlady screaming for her rent just before he wrote the aria. Puccini doesn't really do florid, does he?
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: Opera

Postby bignaf » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:44 pm

Originally posted by dai bread:
Puccini doesn't really do florid, does he? [/QB]
no, he doesn't. (sigh of relief). :D I feel better now. ;)
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Re: Opera

Postby OperaTenor » Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:18 am

Breathe, Big, BREATHE!!
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Re: Opera

Postby dkm32 » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:33 pm

For those in the San Diego area...

Fan of the opera: Lecturer takes mystery out of music in free talks

What: Ron Shaheen's Opera Lecture
When: 10am selected Saturdays through the 2004 San Diego Opera season
Where: Schulman Auditorium, 1775 Dove Lane, Carlsbad, Ca
Cost: Free
Info 760-602-2026
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Re: Opera

Postby barfle » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:00 pm

I have seen one performance of Turandot live, and I have another on video, not to mention a couple of audio recordings, so I don't believe anyone can accuse me of not liking it.

That being said, it has to be one of the sappiest, most unlikely soap operas about a group of people I find unbelievably self-centered and absolutely unlikeable. When I described the performace to a friend of mine, the phrase "what a shallow bitch" seemed to be repeated more often than I thought possible.

Now if we could get someone to write Shos's ending, we might have a serious winner.

But don't forget, the reason you attend an opera is not for the story. It's for the way the story is told. It's kind of like Deep Throat that way...
--I know what I like--
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Re: Opera

Postby The Great Carouser » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:24 pm

Originally posted by barfle:
But don't forget, the reason you attend an opera is not for the story. It's for the way the story is told. It's kind of like Deep Throat that way...
Certainly one of the best analogies I've encountered in my travels. Deep Throat indeed!! :D :D :D
"I adore art...when I am alone with my notes, my heart pounds and the tears stream from my eyes, and my emotion and my joys are too much to bear"-Giuseppe Verdi
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Re: Opera

Postby bignaf » Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:45 pm

don't you like Liu, Barfle?
I hope you don't, you'll make me jealous...
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Re: Opera

Postby Bones » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:30 am

Barfle's comments reminded me of Bruckner. It's said that he averted his eyes from the stage during Wagner operas so that the action and plot would not get in the way of his enjoyment of the music. Clearly, many people go to opera just for the music
"I try to think, but nothing happens!" - Curly Howard
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Re: Opera

Postby The Great Carouser » Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:44 am

Originally posted by barfle:

...That being said, it has to be one of the sappiest, most unlikely soap operas about a group of people I find unbelievably self-centered and absolutely unlikeable....
Did you get this from How To Write An Opera Libretto In Ten Easy Lessons barfle ?
:D
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Re: Opera

Postby barfle » Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:18 pm

Ahh, dear, sweet, simple Liu! Unfortunately, she can take no more, and leaves us far too soon. I actually prefer her aria (of similar title to the description above) to anything the title character does. She is the only genuinely nice person in the whole show. I guess you're going to have to be a bit jealous, Mr. naf (I don't want to owe you any money). ;)
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Re: Opera

Postby bignaf » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:19 pm

Oh yes! I forgot to mention I recently trademarked the word Naf. so you owe me... I'm trying to get a trademark on the word "Mr." just in case. then I'll try to make "Hi" a trademark of mine, too.
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