HOMESCHOOLING

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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby Thalberg » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:17 pm

And how many more to go?

All of the MDs that I know agree that med school was one of, if not THE, most gruelling thing they have ever gone through. In spite of that, I don't know a single one who, knowing what they were getting into, would not do it again.

In other words, hang in there!
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( Robert Benchley )
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby monkeymd2b » Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:02 pm

I've already done family med (my fav), surgery (blech), medicine (2nd fav), and psychiatry (fun times but not a career option). I've just started neurology and I have yet to have an inpatient that can fully communicate with me (comas and slurred speech make for quick neuro exams though!). Next up is OB/GYN and then Peds. Then 4th year. Despite the lack of sleep and fears of killing people, I've had tons of fun so far and 4th year should be even better...or so I hear. And it's true that I probably would do it all over again just for those fun times I've had like Mardi Gras, block parties, crazy fun times on the psych ward (8 psychotic delusional people talking with each other has got to be the funniest thing I've seen this year :D
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby pet » Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:03 am

monkeymd2b,

Free time, what is that? Is that when you get to spend quality time with happy children? Or when, like 80% of the parents I talk to, you struggle through yet another 3-4 hours of helping your children get through all their homework? If I have to choose between that and teaching them myself, I'll choose that latter thanks. Not knowing my situation, I hope you are not passing judgement on my opinions about my area's education system. It has recently been brought to my attention that my own daughter's teacher refused another girl's request to use the bathroom and subsequently that little girl wet her pants, in class!!!! That is just one of many incidents. On the public school side, we had a case in our town where a 12 year old boy was so physically and emotionally bullied that he took his own life. At the trial against his mother, (yes, against his mother) fellow students testified that teachers and other school officials witnessed these atrocities and failed to intervene.

I am happy for you that you were able to have a wonderful education, with a loving and caring mother as one of your teachers. How sad that we all can't benefit from the kind of perfect education that you were able to obtain. I know a few caring, dedicated teachers. Unfortunately, from my experience, they are the minority.

Thanks, I am very excited about spending my "free time" teaching my own children.

BTW, you sound just like the family physician I fired.

pet
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby Nicole Marie » Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:23 pm

Hi Pet-

I just noticed you are from Meriden CT. No wonder you are looking for another school option. I went to St Paul's and had several friend from Meriden. They all had horrible stories about the Meriden ed system.

The mother who was in the news recently... she was facing charges because her son committed suicide and the family said it was her fault. But she said it was the school system and then she sued the school. If I remember the news story correctly, wasn't that case from Meriden? No wonder you are looking for something else.
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby pet » Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:33 pm

Nicole Marie,

It was yet another sad example of failure by government agencies set up to protect those who cannot help themselves, be they young children or the working poor. I do not know all the details of the case, so I won't go off on one of my liberal rants. Suffice to say, I have heard some horror stories about the public school system here. Edison Middle School (the recently opened magnet school) looked promising. However, Meriden is allowed only 200 spaces per grade and they hold a lottery for those. The 200 for grade 6 for the 04-05 school year have already been filled.

I have never experienced it first hand, but I have seen my share of kids get picked on from my own days in public school. Is it too much to ask that kids go to school to learn? I do not send them to school for such social aspirations as being the most popular, having the latest cell phones, or dating the coolest boy or girl.

I will continue to read all I can about home-schooling. The more my husband and I discuss it, the more it looks as if it is our best option.
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby piqaboo » Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:18 pm

My, such vehemence and border-line nastiness we are expressing! :) .

Public schools are a great way to ensure that nearly all our children get at least a basic education. That seems a huge improvement over centuries past. However, imho, nothing that is provided in such mass quantity is going to be the very best fit for everyone. Those who can afford to do home-schooling (most middle class 2-parent families) or private schools (fewer families) are lucky to have that option. Home-schooling is not a new phenomenon in this country. Pioneers had to home-school their children. It took a reasonably large community to support a teacher.
Farm kids and ranch kids didnt always have tons of other children around to socialize with. City kids did. We have national success stories from all walks and back-grounds.

I'm personally glad I wasnt home-schooled because I needed to learn how to deal with teasing :) ,and I'm very competitive. I studied hard to be "top in class", not from genuine interest and curiosity (dirty little secret :)
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby BigJon » Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:15 pm

We are homeschooling my son for several reasons. At 5 years, 2 months in August he would have been the youngest kid in kindergarten. Socially, he is behind his peers in self control and the ability to interact appropriately with his peer age, but intellectually he is ahead of his peers. We could have waited until next year to start him in school in hopes he would mature socially, but we didn’t want his intellectual development to stagnate. He is driven in his intellectual pursuits and can now do fraction math in his head at 5 because he wanted to figure out how to divide pizza slices evenly amongst the family. :) He has completed the rest of his kindergarten curriculum in 3 months and started on his first grade books. I firmly believe (reason below) that regular schools are not equipped to handle this kind of combination of social retardation and intellectual advancement. Montessori style schools are beyond our budget right now.

Fortunately, my wife has a home-based business with flexible hours. The kindergarten curriculum we chose only requires about 2 hours to complete each day. The first grade stuff takes about 3 hours. Makes you wonder what they are doing with the kids the rest of the day at all-day kindergarten. My wife has hooked up with a gang of other homeschooling moms and they take the kids as a group to various places to learn. Lucky kid! I was fortunate to get two field trips a year in public school. They go out about every three weeks.

I was severely underserved by my local public school as I had a similar development curve to my son. I believe this had repercussions throughout my academic career. Grades 1 through 8 were painful and difficult. I entered a new private school in grade 9 that had a campus layout and individualized tracks for academics. The new school, combined with my growing maturity, propelled my academic life forward.

While this next point is way open for debate, some studies have shown that the rigid structure of all day schooling isn’t necessary or appropriate for good mental development of kids under 8. I can dig up the references for this if anyone is interested.

As a religious person, the unrelenting secular humanism of public school curricula today also dismays me. My parents were able to counter the worst of the teachings through instruction at home, but why should I be put in the position of trying to get my son to unlearn ideas that I believe are wrong?

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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby monkeymd2b » Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:51 pm

Pet, I'm sorry if you felt I was passing judgement on your opinions of your school system, I was merely asking if you had gone in and helped out with what sounds like a shitty school system from the examples you and nicole provided. As for the free time thing, I just figured that if you can have the time to home school, then you must have a job (part time, home office, homemaker, etc) that allows that extra "free" time. I'm not saying you're making any bad choices or whatever, in fact, I think it's great that you care that much about your kids' education since I've seen kids who have parents who seem to think school is a place where kids can be kept for a time being and really don't give a damn what they're learning.

As for the doctor thing, what exactly is it about my opinion that turned you off such that I was compared to a doctor you fired. Seriously, tell me. I'm still a student afterall and such feedback is necessary for my growth. Come on, I can take it...I don't necessarily have to use it but I can take it. This year is all about evaluations on my performance and those all come from docs who have been in the biz for quite some time and from residents who are only slightly less fresh than me.

Oh and my education was far from perfect but compared to what you describe of the meriden system, I guess it relatively was. My brothers and I also lucked out since we all qualified for the Gifted/Talented program which provided more enrichment above the basics in a variety of topics. Geek moment: the year we concentrated on science was when i first decided that a career in the sciences was definitely for me. My mom, being a teacher, would just add fun educational activities for my brothers, neighborhood kids, and I to do during the summers and on weekends when we weren't playing soccer or doing other typical kids things (ie when we looked bored). And she would turn any vacation we took into some sort of educational experience whether we liked it or not (we were forced to keep journals of our trips to new places but at least she didn't grade them...we would have gotten Fs the way my brothers and I "wrote"about our trip to washington dc)

<small>[ 02-02-2004, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: monkeymd2b ]</small>
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby Marye » Mon Feb 02, 2004 6:16 pm

If I may say, Monkeymd2b

Passing judgement on your opinions
might be what pet found she did not like in her doctor and probably some arrogance. I have known residents and interns who could not feel for their patients and coldly spoke to the condition or to the disease or to their own brilliance in diagnosing rather than to the person who was suffering. You clearly have a wonderful mother and you sound proud of her ... and you should be .... but I am willing to bet that pet is a wonderful mother too and is doing the very best that she can for her children and they will one be just as proud.
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:21 pm

A word in mmd's defense. Physicians go through a really rough course before they get to write Dr. next to their names, and empathy and sensitivity are not advantages during this time. Further, there's a thing called "professional distance". It is a sad fact that strong empathy with the patient may very well interfere with the patient's best long term interests.

I like to find a primary physician with whom I can have a cordial ongoing relationship, but I'll take technical excellence over personal warmth every single time in a specialist.

About teachers; we've all done battle with a few Professional Educators who should have gone into another field. They are memorable only because most of the teachers I've met have been competent and effective.

I still feel that most children are best educated as part of a class. Homeschooling is an option for the kids who really do not do well as part of a group or who are not being well instructed without more one-to-one time but I remain concerned about those kids' inability to get along in a normal peer group.

And, for the unfortunate kids afflicted with severe ADD or ADHD, the drugs may be the only way they ever learn anything. Insisting that they "learn to focus" may well be as silly as insisting that depression sufferers should "just cheer up".

Aaack. Here, somebody else take the soapbox.

Selma
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby monkeymd2b » Mon Feb 02, 2004 11:21 pm

Hey, I just realized that I had a classmate in high school who was home schooled until 9th grade. He said he came to public school for 2 reasons: 1. his mom could no longer teach him due to the level he was at and 2. He wanted to go to school with people in his age group. At first, he was kind of a jerk and had difficulty interacting with us without pissing us off within 15 minutes due to some of the tactless statements he made. By the end of the summer PE session, he was able to mesh with the group yet still be a unique person (at 17 he won an award for his slack key guitar album - hawaii's version of a grammy). I should say that PE in the summer was the Honors tract students version of an easy A class since PE in the school year would have required that we actually show up all the time and god forbid, participate. :eek:
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby pet » Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:07 am

monkeymd2b

I apologize for being guilty of the same judgemental attitude. I read blah, blah, blah, me, me, me, in your posts that just reminded me of my ex-doctor. I'll give you a few instances:

1. When you have a physical, you go to his office, he gives you the blood work forms, he does a few once overs. You go to the lab, get the blood work done. Results are sent to your home. If you don't understand any of the "numbers" filled in on the lab form, I guess you are supposed to go back to him. Rather than having the lab work done prior so he can discuss it with you at the time of your phsyical.
2. I used to run/jog daily. When I went to him with severe knee pain, he told me I probably had arthritis and I needed to strengthen my quads. Flipped me a few samples of Celebrex and sent me on my way. The pain worsened and back to him I went (ka-ching!) I pleaded with my gatekeeper to please refer me to an orthopaedic surgeon. He reluctantly agreed to send me. After x-rays and mri, the surgeon diagnosed a torn meniscus. After surgery and 6 weeks on crutches, I have had absolutely no pain.
3. After my company switched to a no-referral insurance, I went for my annual physical. I told him of foot pain I was having only after rest. Without even looking up from his notes, he told me I had arthritis and here are some Vioxx samples. Never even asked me to remove my shoes. I could have had a nail sticking through my foot. Went to see a podiatrist, after xrays and examination I was diagnosed with fallen arches and mild (left) to severe (right) heel spurs.

I could go on, but that was not the purpose of the original thread. I, too, care more about technical abilities than bedside manner. But when both are so feeble, I fire the individual in question. So like I said, I do not know your abilities and for that I am sorry for my quick judgement. But your tone sounded awfully familiar.

As far as my children go, this has been the hardest decision I've ever had to make and it scares me to death that I could mess them up if I make the wrong one.

I do appreciate everyone's assistance and encouragement though.
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby OperaTenor » Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:24 pm

Originally posted by Selma in San Diego:
Physicians go through a really rough course before they get to write Dr. next to their names,
Yeah, but they still call it a "practice".


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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby monkeymd2b » Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:05 pm

Pet, wow, that dr sounds like he's crumbled under the pressures of managed care. As a student, it's actually kind of frustrating since there have been times where I wanted the attending to explain a finding or rationale behind his decision only to be brushed aside with the response "I'll tell you later" and unless I kept bothering that dr, I never got a response. That lab thing is bad practice in my opinion since most people won't be able to interpret results or may misinterpret results. I can see why you fired that doc. Geez, what kind of town is this Meriden anyway?!? Bad schools, bad docs, what else?!? At the VA (where I'm currently beating on the vets in my sad attempt to elicit reflexes), the patients are given lab appointments before visits so more can be accomplished. And unless someone has a chronic condition or is getting followup care for an acute process, sometimes it's hard to know what to order until the patient comes in and the exact lab or imaging studies needed are known (wouldn't want to waste resources and MEDICARE/MEDICAID does audits of it's physicians if they do or order too much of one thing...according to docs I've worked with). Again, I'm sure the $$ has a part in that decision. Sad but unfortunately that's the way the system works. At Charity and the VA we learn all the money saving ways of diagnosing problems since the state and national govts eat it when patients can't pay. THe charity system here in New Orleans is deep in debt and has already closed the diabetic clinic, the internal medicine clinic, the HIV clinic, and more closures are expected since they're still deep in debt. We keep patients in the hospital (ave $1000/day cost) only because they wouldn't be able to afford antibiotics if treated outpatient ($50-$100/day). It's frustrating when you can't give a certain level of care because there's no money to do so.
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby bignaf » Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:39 pm

Originally posted by monkeymd2b:
Geez, what kind of town is this Meriden anyway?!? Bad schools, bad docs, what else?!?
it might not be the town...

<small>[ 02-03-2004, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: bignaf ]</small>
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby dai bread » Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:26 pm

Originally posted by monkeymd2b:
" The principal at her school cancelled both the physics olympics my mom started and the christmas fun fair (where the 5th graders learned about running a "business" in terms of advertising their game booth and making a profit), she also reduced recess to 10 minutes so that the students could theoretically perform better on these lame ass tests and the result? The kids did worse!
This time being the start of our schoolyear, and the time when the results of last year's major exams are announced, it has become very evident that the students who get the really high marks in the exams are also good at other things. A sport, always, and often music as well. "As well", you notice, not "in place of".

This even applies to our Chinese immigrants, who tend to take the top honours these days. Not exclusively though. Not by any means exclusively.......
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby piqaboo » Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:34 pm

Its lame for a Dr not to explain lab results, but I'd rather have the actual results mailed to my home without explanation ( I can google the tests for normal ranges etc if I have to), than what happens with our med insurance.

We never get to see the actual lab report without a specific request to the MD. To get a copy requires pestering the overworked people at the front desk and begging them to make a photocopy.

If test results are "normal", we are not notified. If they're abnormal, the lab or Dr calls to let us know. If the results are lost, gee we are not notified, leaving us either to pester the Dr/lab or to assume all is well. In this way, a friend of mine was not told that she had leukemia for 6 months following the diagnosis. The results were inadvertently placed in her file before she was called, and so she was never called. It came up the next time she went to see her Dr about something.

I'm not saying pet had a good MD (he sounds like a jerk actually), but he had at least one habit I'd like my Dr's to develop!
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:10 pm

I generally get some sort of feedback whenever I have any sort of screening stuff done. The office staff calls with results of throat cultures (Get this filled, or, No problem, it was probably viral. Call us if it's not better by next week) My gynecologist reports back with normal/unusual/bad responses on pap smears and breast x-rays. My family practitioner has copies of blood work sent to us, with scribbled marginalia included. (BTW, my fasting cholesterol is 168; not bad for a sedentary middleaged fat lady). ((Deb's is 120. Gil's is 175. Conclusion: butter doesn't cause high cholesterol.))

For a real physical, we usually get scheduled into the lab a week or so before the exam appointment, so that the routine screening results are there for the doctor and he knows whether something needs special attention. I thought that this was how medical care is supposed to work. It doesn't always, and sometimes the patient has to learn how to work the system.

I also think that some physicians don't really want the raw results sent to the patient, because they don't understand it and do sometimes panic when something is misunderstood. (I recall once when my ex-sister-in-law was in a total panic because her daughter was "afebrile".) ((Translation in case anybody needs it: "no fever".))

Come to think of it, school testing should work pretty much like that. Results should go where they'll provide useful feedback, they should be explained until they mean something, and they should be used to address whatever problems exist. Seems like school testing doesn't do that.
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby Nicole Marie » Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:23 pm

I gave up on Dr.’s a while back. I go to a great nurse practitioner. We chat about my diet (vegetarian), my health etc. Because she's a nurse practitioner she has more time to spend with me. She address all my questions and is up on natural treatments which are my first choice. It took some digging but I found a medical professional that gets me. That's the most important thing, that they understand you.
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Re: HOMESCHOOLING

Postby bignaf » Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:35 pm

best thing is to never to go to any medical person.
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