Gotta see it!

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Gotta see it!

Postby Nicole Marie » Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:33 am

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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby barfle » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:16 am

Well, I shut down the beethoven stream to watch the trailer, and first, there was no picture. I don't think there's a regular here who believes I'm much of a fan of GWB's, particularly his actions in Iraq, and the blasphemously titled U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T act.

But there's something about Michael Moore that, every time I see him, makes me feel the need for a shower. Everything I've seen of his work has been so blatantly politically leftist that I always felt like I hadn't gone to a movie, I'd gone to a sermon.

And now, he's won an award. I seriously doubt that I will see this film in a theater, since we probably do that twice a year anyway. Because of the award, if it shows up on cable, yeah, I might invest the time, but there's something about the way Moore delivers his messages that really disappoints me.

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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby OperaTenor » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:36 pm

Yeah, what you said, Barfle. I've got no respect for MM after his behavior at the Oscars.

Be they left or right, I hate liars.
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby rwcrooks » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:16 pm

Well, that trailer sure didn't make me want to run out and watch the movie.

As for the Palm d'Or award. I really don't pay much attention to awards that groups of people give to other people in the group, like the Oscars, Emmys, etc. The palm d'or jury is made up of directors, actors, critics, etc. Think they have a vested interest in creating controversy or pushing a political agenda?

OT, I wouldn't go as far as the liars part, in reference to MM, but I don't have a whole lot of respect for people who are so blind to their own viewpoint that they can see absolutely no merit in anyone having an opposing viewpoint.

Too bad for MM, that his creative career peaked with his first release, Roger and Me, and he's just been doing the same film over and over. Apparently there are audiences.
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby OperaTenor » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:32 pm

Yeah, that was kind of misdirected. As I was typing, that last little comment just kind of surfaced out of Haggis' pond.

<"yeah, that's it, blame it on him, such an easy target">
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby Nicole Marie » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:38 pm

MM does go on rants that make it difficult to agree with. But he does make points that, once in awhile, make you go "Oh Yeah, he nailed it." Like in "Bowling..." how Canada has more guns per person then the US. And during the year he filmed Bowling, Canada had 4 guns deaths and the US had over 26,000 that year. He then followed it up with historical points and the trend in this country. We are quicker to shoot someone then sit down and talk to them. He also made good points on the constant state of fear this country is in, and how it puts us in positions to question, instead of talk to our neighbors. But as for the rest of Bowling, I found it often rant-like.

So, IF you see 9/11, take it with a grain of salt but don't shut down the whole film.
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby rwcrooks » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:58 pm

Nicole,

The whole reason no one gets shot in Canada is out of common courtesy. The shooter knows that the shootee will have to schedule the doctor visit well in advance and doesn't want to cause any inconvenience.
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby Nicole Marie » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:09 pm

Very cute. ;)
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby rwcrooks » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:17 pm

Nicole,

MM got his gun death numbers wrong. According to the Canadian government (Canada Firearms Centre), from 1970-1996, Canada averaged 1385 firearm deaths per year. The rate varies from place to place in Canada with national average being 4.5 per 100,000 (the highest was 14.5 per 100,000 in Northwest Territories.)

In the US, we average about 30,000, with a rate of just over 14 per 100,000 (lower than the Northwest Territories!)

Also, according to the University of PA Surgery web site: "The correlation between firearm availability and rates of homicide is consistent across high-income industrialized nations: where there are more firearms, there are higher rates of homicide overall. The U.S. has the highest rates of both firearm homicide and private firearm ownership."

So, MM appears to have been wrong about the per capita gun ownership statistics as well as the per capita (and actual) firearm death rates.

Will he retract his statements? revise his film? modify his conclusion? Sorta doubt it.
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby Nicole Marie » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:23 pm

Are you going on what I posted? Don't. I was going off of my memory of the movie. But still any way you cut it, we kill more then Canada.

So b/c we own more guns we kill more. Nice. Maybe we should own less guns.
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby rwcrooks » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:35 pm

I think that's the point. The higher per capita gun ownership rate, the higher per capita gun death rate.
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby Nicole Marie » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:40 pm

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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby rwcrooks » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:50 pm

Interesting article. But click on the "larger discussion" link to find out about homicide rates. The US is not in 1st place for homicide rates, but in 9th place. I guess that once you take out suicides and accidents, the number is less skewed.

Amazing what you can do with statistics!

Actually my "gotta see it" is the ne Harry Potter movie, tonight!
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby Nicole Marie » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:00 pm

I'm more interested in the rate of gun deaths. A gun is easy and if this country had less access to them we could see a drop in our high rate. I'm not really sure what your position is. Are you for harder access?
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby mmichaelson » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:36 pm

I do think that it should be harder to access guns (what a Texas girl???). But we do have the right to bear arms, so it should not be impossible to get a gun, just difficult and time consuming, with good background checks and a waiting limit.
At least that would deter some of the more rash reasons for gun-buying.
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:50 pm

I'm for requiring a firearm safety course and 100 hours of range practice before purchase of a gun is permitted.

I'm for requiring periodic safety course repeats and range accuracy checks.

I'm against inexpensive, inaccurate weapons.
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby mmichaelson » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:53 pm

Sounds like a good plan to me Selma. Raise the requirements for carrying the weapons, and the standards of the carrier and the weapon.
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby The Great Carouser » Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:08 pm

Apparently I'm the last liberal Democrat who supports the right to bear arms. I always felt this was to be a protection against tyrant(s). Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) the weaponry of the state is such that this argument is almost moot. It's very difficult to fight automatic weapons with single shot weapons.

For those who might be curious, at this time I don't own a firearm but support your right to own them and will endure the 'additional risk' to my personal safety.
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby barfle » Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:21 am

And I'm a Libertarian who feels that it makes a certain amount of sense to require gun operation and safety classes.

It's tragic when a child finds dad's loaded gun in the nightstand and kills himself or a friend - something that could have been prevented by a little common sense. And I most certainly feel the parent is liable in that circumstance.
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Re: Gotta see it!

Postby rwcrooks » Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:01 am

Let's not forget the reason for the right to bear arms: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. " The Bill of Rights explicitly ties the right into the existence of a "well regulated militia." And has the need for the militia now been replaced by our armed forces?

As for kids finding loaded guns ... no gun should be stored loaded or without a trigger lock.
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