Gotta see it!

[rwcrooks]

So, I see that the new Bond CD (Import version) is out today, the US version not until the 15th. Maybe b.com will play a cut or two.

[piqaboo]

Originally posted by RichC:

Originally posted by Shapley:
[b] Loss of memory. I hate getting old.

Don't worry, Shap. Pretty soon you'll forget you're old. [/b]

LOL, RichC!

[Shapley]

Rich: RE:<<So, I see that the new Bond CD is out today,>>

So, who's playing him this time? Is Pierce Brosnan still in?

V/R
Shapley

[rwcrooks]

I've been looking at the cover (I sure appear to be their target market!) and can't see ole Pierce there.

[Shapley]

Yeah! I just had a look at it. It ain't Moneypenny, either!

[Ajax]

OT, I am very familiar with the Wagner/Adolf connection. What's your point! Do you question my ideology?! I have none. I enjoy reading on all kinds of things, from Julius Evola to Christianity and back to Darwin, then too...?

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by Shapley:
Yeah! I just had a look at it. It ain't Moneypenny, either!

Which one?

[Shapley]

Oops!

<small>[ 06-09-2004, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Shapley ]</small>

[piqaboo]

Q for Ajax:
What were the "majority" that founded this country? What was their common ideology? And what time period are you referring to?

One of the problems I'm having in following this discussion is that different posters seem to be using different definitions of the same words.

And what method of orderly lawful admission do you propose for immigration? Would it apply equally to citizens of every country in the world or would European countries get a sort of immigration most-favored-nation status? Would there be bonus points for illegals who made heroic efforts (financial sacrifice, physical bravery) to get here? What about ?H1B? visa holders who overstay their visas?

I like Selma's idea for our borders - allow Canadian and Mexican workers in on a licensed basis, allowing them to live, work and pay taxes legally in this country (if I properly understood her proposal).

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Whoever shows up at the card table. It would be nice to know where they come from, where they plan to go to, and that they have something legal to do while they're here. (I suspect that a lot of the less desirable immigrants would be turned in by their neighbors, if the neighbors didn't also have to worry about the local cops calling the feds and having everyone deported, impartially.)

A word from Ed: It would be nice if these discussions started out with definitions of terms. I've whined about that before.

[Ajax]

A for Piq:
1) English, Dutch, and probally some Spaniards and Portugese, whom loved sailing more than most.
2) Method of lawful Admission? The laws we have now work just fine with me. My town has many brought Somalians over for the last ten years, and I am not protesting that. They came legally.

[Nicole Marie]

Geeze, look what happens when I take on day off. Back to your corners all of you.

Any way, Ajax. Be careful with your last comment. Groups that "founded" this country is to broad an idea to put a tag on. Yes, the English settled most of New England. And yes, you can find groups that had large influence at one time or another but I'd stay away from the "founding" thing. This country is has and is still changing and will continue to change as new groups are introduced.

Now as for the Portuguese vs. the Spanish (since my husband if FROM Portugal)... Portugal and Spain decided early on to split the Americas. They both wanted to cash in and didn't want to fight with each other over land since they were both facing fights with the "natives". So Spain took the northern areas (Latin America, Mexico etc) and Portugal took South America (that's why Brazil speaks Portuguese and the other countries in South America speak a mix of Portuguese and Spanish). I'd say they impacted south of us more then the US directly. That's why general statments "loved sailing more then most" is dangerous to say.

[mmichaelson]

Got a little ugly didn't it?
Marye and I tried to start some threads that were non-harmful, but they were not nearly as popular as these.

[Ajax]

Thanks for the lesson, Nicole. Much of the Portugal takes I learned from living on Cape Cod for awhile, so that is where I got that from. I didn't mean to take anything out of context, though. I was under the impression that since the country was "pinned" between the ocean and Spain, they would naturally becoming seafaring folk.

[Nicole Marie]

Portugal is a natural country for the ocean. Portugal was one of the largest empires in the world back in the 1400's. They held the most territories, trade routes etc for a time and all due to their knack for shipbuilding. Bruno is from a town on the ocean know for it's fishing boats, love the history.

The Portuguese settled most of eastern Mass. Cape Cod actually looks the way it does because of the Portugese. When they landed they used the dense forests on Cape Cod to build boats. Cape Cod used to have massive forest but is mostly sand dunes now due to the use of trees for ships. Especially the tip of CC, like P Town. So yes, they did have influence, I will not deny it (Bruno and I live in an area of CT that is heavily Portuguese) but more or less my point was that individual groups come and go. This country is ever changing.

I know from my family history (grandparents FOB from Italy) that the area of CT they settled in was heavily Italian. But now the Italians are moving out and Puerto Ricans are moving in. Groups are always changing the landscape of this country and it's tough to say this one group or two was the end all.

[Shapley]

Nicole,

It was Pope Alexander who drew the "Line of Demarcation" separating the claims of Spain and Portugal, in order to prevent war over the colonies. Basically, Portugal got the short end of the stick, but overall the line worked to prevent European bloodshed. The poor Native Americans didn't fair so well.

If you've ever seen "The Mission" (with its outstanding soundtrack my Ennio Morricone) you will get some idea of the effects of this struggle.

V/R
Shapley

[Ajax]

I know very little about movies, but in my opinion that was an excellent movie.

[Shapley]

Here is what U-S-History.com says:

Treaty of Tordesillas
1494
Upon returning to Spain in 1493 after his first voyage, Christopher Columbus contacted Pope Alexander VI (a Spaniard by birth) to report his discoveries. Acting as the great European arbiter of the day, the pope then issued a bull (decree) that divided the New World lands between Spain and Portugal by establishing a north-south line of demarcation 100 leagues* west of the Cape Verde Islands. Undiscovered non-Christian lands to the west of the line were to be Spanish possessions and those to the east belonged to Portugal.

News of this decision was not warmly greeted by the Portuguese, who argued that previous agreements conflicted with the pope's decision.

In the spring of 1494, representatives of Spain and Portugal met in the Spanish town of Tordesillas and negotiated a mutually satisfactory solution to their dispute. The line of demarcation was relocated to a position 370 leagues west of the Cape Verde Islands. (It was impossible during this age to determine precisely the impact of this agreement on account of the nagging difficulty of establishing longitude accurately.) However, Portugal emerged with an enhanced position by gaining a larger portion of South America (Brazil). Even with this modification, Spain had gained control (on paper) of most of the New World.

The pope granted his official recognition of this agreement in 1506. Spain and Portugal, with a few exceptions, remained loyal to the terms of the treaty; the Portuguese would expand deep into Brazil beyond the demarcation line, but Spain did not object. The natives of these regions, needless to say, were not consulted about the assignment of their homelands to others and competing powers in Europe totally ignored the line.

For years following 1494, the Spanish lamented their consent to the treaty, convinced that they had received the short end of the stick. Their initial discoveries in the New World yielded little mineral wealth, but much disease and discomfort. Their evaluation of this bargain with Portugal changed dramatically in the 1520s as the riches from Aztec Mexico began to be exploited.

In the Treaty of Zaragoza (1529), the demarcation line was extended through both poles and encompassed the entire world.

[Shapley]

Ajax,

If you ever get a chance to, see Black Robe. It deals with the Christianizing of the Huron Indians in Canada. Beautiful scenery. Alas! No Ennio Morricone, though

V/R
Shapley

[Nicole Marie]

Yeah, thanks. Let's not give all the credit to the Pope on this one, meaning he and Chris didn't decide to do this on their own. Portugal and Spain were having issues with who got what and it was decided to split. Both being very catholic countries and the church having large influence over them came up with this plan. Not here to argue the details, just wanted to chat with Ajax.

It was on US History.com and in a movie! It must be true!

<small>[ 06-10-2004, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Nicole Marie ]</small>