World War Two.

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Re: World War Two.

Postby haggis » Fri May 20, 2005 4:54 pm

That's why the Ma Duce is still around as an anti-personnel weapon 85 years after is was first designed, it’s just so damn good. I've seen it used to bring a house down (as in complete collapse into rubble) in just seconds.

the design of the rounds were so good that the first supersonic aircraft, the Bell X-1, was just a scaled up version of the round with wings and vertical stabilizer attached. The Bell designers knew that the 50 cal round was supersonic so it was already a proven design.
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Re: World War Two.

Postby Angie Parkes » Fri May 20, 2005 5:08 pm

When you mentioned the Cdn sniper in the earlier post, I googled it and found a BB visited by servicemen (the "men", I think, is appropriate here), ex-servicemen, and I think, wanna-be servicemen. Some spoke of this shot quite knowledgeably, having been snipers themselves in combat. Those men expressed considerable admiration.

There were others who claimed that GS Hathcock's shot was the better of the two because of the conditions and that he killed his target with one shot, whereas MC Perry killed his target after at least the second round (there was some argument about 2 or 3 rounds needed). There was lots of talk about the scopes and calculations required.

Cdn snipers preferred the American ammunition because it travelled farther. An interview with MC Perry revealed something endearingly Cdn, under the circsumstances. He described the recoil from the weapon as the same feeling as "when someone hits you over the back of your hockey helmet with a hockey stick".

Being able to see & kill through walls is very big juju. I'm glad we're on the same side.
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Re: World War Two.

Postby haggis » Fri May 20, 2005 8:00 pm

Don't listen to the Hathcock naysayers,

Most Hathcock admirers are of the type who refused to admit that anyone could beat the Bambino's home run record.

The challenger had a different bat, the baseballs were made differently, the season was longer, etc.

All valid observations but denying the truth of the matter; times change and technology change, but the players are great because they don't change.

MC Perry has entered the records book and deservedly so.

It's just sad that the proclaimers of his entry into that elite brotherhood are mostly Yanks...
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Re: World War Two.

Postby Angie Parkes » Sun May 22, 2005 4:30 pm

I think the key characteristic of the Hathcock support group was that they had never been in combat. It seemed to me that the men who had were inclined to give Perry the honour they felt was due.

This could be because combat soldiers have a higher appreciation of someone on their side who can kill an enemy 1.5 miles away, than do men whose only experience with confrontation comes from a stirring round of "our cat's blacker than yours." I think their nationality was quite coincidental.

I doubt that the comrades-in-arms of MC Perry could have cared less if he was Canadian, American, or Alpha Centaurian. For that matter, I doubt it was a concern to the Taliban, either.
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Re: World War Two.

Postby BigJon@Work » Mon May 23, 2005 2:44 pm

Originally posted by Angie:
When you mentioned the Cdn sniper in the earlier post, I googled it and found a BB visited by servicemen (the "men", I think, is appropriate here), ex-servicemen, and I think, wanna-be servicemen. Some spoke of this shot quite knowledgeably, having been snipers themselves in combat. Those men expressed considerable admiration.
Do you have a link? I can't find it.

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Re: World War Two.

Postby Angie Parkes » Mon May 23, 2005 2:58 pm

Sorry, Jon. I googled once and then deleted it. I can't even remember my search terms, although if I were to do it again I'd use "sniper" and "record".
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Re: World War Two.

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon May 23, 2005 3:20 pm

google "Master corporal Arron Perry"
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Re: World War Two.

Postby BigJon@Work » Mon May 23, 2005 6:39 pm

I still can't find anything relevant.

BTW, I calculated the difference in scope vector to barrel vector and they would only have to diverge by 1.05 degrees, not a lot, I guess. But to rely on a scope to hit a target that is 4 foot high at that distance would require a scope aiming accuracy of .029 degrees in the vertical. A number that most of the finest machine shops in the world couldn't reliably hit. Let's just call this kill "dumb luck" except, of course, for the poor bastard he hit.

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<small>[ 05-24-2005, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: BigJon@Work ]</small>
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Re: World War Two.

Postby piqaboo » Tue May 24, 2005 11:10 am

Au contraire, BigJon.
Although luck always plays a part, the need to compensate is where the skill factor comes into play.

I know some folks grow up with better binocular vision than others (implying that some are better an uni-ocular vision). And some have steadier hands.
So in some sense, snipers could be 'born not made', but practice does increase proficiency in this area, so its probably some of both, just as it is for worldclass sprinters.
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Re: World War Two.

Postby lliam » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:46 am

1944 - D-Day invasion of Normandy by Allies to liberate W Europe from German occupation
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Re: World War Two.

Postby mmichaelson » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:44 am

My grandpa was there!
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Re: World War Two.

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:21 am

" know some folks grow up with better binocular vision than others (implying that some are better an uni-ocular vision)."

Chuck Yeager frequently attributes many of his kills to his superior vision and famously said that "I'd rather be lucky than good"

I think it's a combination of skills and planning meeting opportunity.

"My grandpa was there!"

My father was slogging across the Pacific in an eventual journey that would take him to Okinawa and, eventually, as a member of "The Army of Occupation" in Japan.

He died four years ago yesterday, 06/05/00.

We are losing our "Greatest Generation" quietly but rapidly.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: World War Two.

Postby lliam » Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:57 pm

quote]We are losing our "Greatest Generation" quietly but rapidly.

----------------------------------------------

'U.S.S Slater'
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Volunteer!
Put in some time helping to restore the USS Slater and be a part of restoring her to her original condition.
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In our current fervor to memorialize the World War II generation, "The Greatest Generation," there is an urgency to complete our concrete and marble memorials to them while these veterans are still alive to appreciate our efforts. But as these memorials are constructed and dedicated, one should ask, "How would they want to be remembered themselves?" What kind of memorials would they produce of it were up to them?" To this end, one group of World War II veterans has quietly spoken. The members of the Destroyer Escort Sailors Association want to be remembered through a ship. One of their ships. Starting in 1992, with their own money and their own sweat, the 15,000 members raised $290,000 to save the Slater from the scrap heap and bring her home from Greece, where she served as a training ship for naval officers after World War II. Following Slater's arrival in New York, these veterans and their wives continued to support the Slater both financially and with their sweat and time. They annually donated over 20,000 volunteer hours a year in their efforts to restore her.
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Re: World War Two.

Postby OperaTenor » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:38 pm

My father landed onUtah Beach on Sep 7, 1944, 104th Infantry Battalion, 26th Division("Yankee"), under Patton in the 3rd Army. He served as part of Patton's "Red Ball Express", was a part of the push from the south to relieve Bastogne in the Battle of the Ardennes("Bulge"), and had advanced to Czechoslovakia by the time the European war ended.

DSC, Silver Star, Bronze Star, and the Purple Heart with three oak leaf clusters.

Son of a hero.
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Re: World War Two.

Postby Marye » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:47 pm

Having driven along Operation Overlord and been to Utah beach, I have only the greatest respect for the Americans who landed on Utah Beach on D-Day. I hold no less respect for those that came after or before that date.

A hero indeed.
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Re: World War Two.

Postby piqaboo » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:40 am

My father was a child, evacuated to the British countryside. I just realized I dont know whether either of my grandfathers served. I shall have to ask.
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Re: World War Two.

Postby barfle » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:58 am

Originally posted by Haggis@wk:
We are losing our "Greatest Generation" quietly but rapidly.
I'm glad to say my dad, who served in the Pacific, is doing well at age 80. Last year he was able to visit the WWII memorial in DC, and thought it was appropriate.
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Re: World War Two.

Postby Angie Parkes » Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:28 pm

Lliam, is the Slater a Liberty ship?

My dad speaks fondly of them, although he was just 10 in 1939. He remembers riding a bicycle delivering flowers in Malta, chased by a low-flying Stuka (I think), getting a few rounds off as they were pulling out of a dive. He's told me that the bombing was so bad, eventually the air raid sirens just stopped because they would have been going practically round the clock.

And I think I've got it rough when I have to head out to the corner store for milk.
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Re: World War Two.

Postby Shapley » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:20 pm

Angie,

the Slater was a Destroyer escort:

http://www.ussslater.org/

V/R
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Re: World War Two.

Postby Shapley » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:29 pm

Angie,

The Liberty ship John Brown is afloat in Baltimore Harbour, MD. The Jeremiah O'Brien is in San Francisco, CA. Both can be toured, but you'd have to visit their websites:

http://www.liberty-ship.com/

http://www.ssjeremiahobrien.org/

to find out more information.

I've toured the O'Brien, back in the '80s, and it was rather interesting. They had the boilers fired up, and a crew on board, getting ready for the annual cruise. I couldn't make the cruise, but the tour was good enough.

V/R
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