Kerry's Service Record

[haggis]

"how often are PH's awarded for self-inflicted wounds, and, won't the military revoke the medal if it's determined it was awarded under misleading circumstances?
"

Probably more than most people realize and no, it's hard to rescind medals once they've been awarded.

"would be more inclined to focus on issues and what's good about themselves'

Well, in all fairness, Mr. Kerry has made four months of his life 30+ years ago the center of his campaign

(Ed. "What about the 20 years he was a U.S. Senator?"

Don't go there)

Now that people are starting to ask questions about those four months he's going to have to come up with some reasonable answers.

I suspect that “Winter Soldier” testimonies are also lurking in the wings, and those are all public records.

More people are starting to look at what he said and alleged and are not happy.

He’s called this tune and I suspect he’s deciding he doesn’t like the words.

[Shapley]

OT,

I don't think the politicians and their campaigns are behind this particular bit of "mudslinging". The questions are being raised by Vietnam vets and reporters. Whether those vets really want to set the record straight, have an old bone to pick with Kerry, or are simply Republicans stirring the pot is unknown right now. The bottom line is this is a real issue, left unanswered years ago, brought back up now because of Mr. Kerry's unwillingness to put it to rest when it should have been.

V/R
Shapley

[RC]

Who through the first punch?
This sounds like a stupid question but I don't recall hearing anything about Kerry's service in vietnam until his medal slinging at the White House came out in the press.

I'm sure he knew he would have to defend hisself as he did in the 60's & 70's.
Don't you think he would like to have left this issue on the back burner with abortion (another issue that splits the voters)?

That first question was rhetorical- impossible to answer.

It is my hunch that Kerry touts his service record because it is either that or pretend it's a non-issue when it obviously is. I think that would just make people more suspiscious.

P.S.
There is a website for the group Kerry belonged to (Vets against the war) that has/had text of Kerry's speeches. I looked at them ages ago.

[Nicole Marie]

Uh, Shapely we do know and yes they are behind the mudslinging. http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-08-08-kerry-vets_x.htm

The vets in those commercials are Bush supporters, 13 of them never served with Kerry, and two have recanted the statements they made for that commercial. The people that paid for the commercial are pro Bush. Keep in mind these independent ads are just that, independent and they have an agenda. (Just like MoveOn.org) Pay attention to what Bush and Kerry are saying, not what someone else says and especially NOT to 13 people who were never there.

[Shapley]

Nicole,

I am talking about what Kerry himself said. He said he "committed atrocities", but he has not identified the nature of those atrocities.

I haven't seen the swift boat ads, nor read their book.

V/R
Shapley

[Nicole Marie]

Sorry, I did not take the time to read the entire thread. No time to do it.

Well sure he committed atrocities. It's war and he has admitted to taking part in the "free fire zones". When troops go into an area and open fire and burn down villages. He did do this in villages that were cleared of citizens. He also admitted that he fired back at people to defend himself and others (probably killing people). Sounds pretty bad to me but it's war and at least he served...

<small>[ 08-09-2004, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Nicole Marie ]</small>

[Nicole Marie]

<small>[ 08-09-2004, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Nicole Marie ]</small>

[rwcrooks]

William Calley served, too.

[rwcrooks]

Not meaning to sound stupid, but was it customary for Navy personnel to leave their boats and go stomping around ashore to burn buildings and shoot up the joint? It seems more like an Army/USMC kind of thing.

[Nicole Marie]

Funny RichC but my jab was at Bush.

[rwcrooks]

And I was just pointing out that serving is not always "higher ground" than not serving.

[haggis]

Well, it's an easy enough problem to resolve. Let Mr. Kerry release his military records, Bush did.

ad hominem attacks are only going to fuel further speculation. Mr. Kerry has all the evidence he need to refute the allegations, his own records.

At a very minimum, the famous, on the floor of the senate, “Cambodian Christmas” speech is going to be the worse allegation Mr. Kerry will face. He simply could not have been there and even his recently released personal journal entries shows that he spent Christmas elsewhere.

Will that really matter? We already have observed that being caught lying is considered a badge of honor among democrats, so even the embarrassment of being caught in so grievous a lie probably won’t harm him.

I just can’t believe that no one ever twigged to the sentence about Nixon being president in 1968!

[Shapley]

a·troc·i·ty [ ə tróssətee ] (plural a·troc·i·ties) noun
1. shockingly cruel act: a shockingly cruel act, especially an act of wanton violence against an enemy in wartime.

That's not refering to normal war-related casualties. I would expect John Kerry to know the difference. If not, then he should he say so.

V/R
Shapley

[rwcrooks]

Well, one thing's obvious ... Kerry isn't a regular reader of this BB, otherwise I'm sure he would have cleared everything up by now.

<small>[ 08-09-2004, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: RichC ]</small>

[haggis]

Nicole,

"especially NOT to 13 people who were never there."

How did you get that from the article?

All of them swore affidavits that they were in the same squadron at the same time as Kerry was. Are you saying they weren't even in Vietnam?

As I said, simple to resolve, release the records, nothing less will resolve the allegations.

[rwcrooks]

Originally posted by Nicole Marie:
Pay attention to what Bush and Kerry are saying, not what someone else says and especially NOT to 13 people who were never there.

Nicole, Seems like that philosophy didn't hold true for everyone talking about Bush's record. Not that I'm defending it, but should we only listen to people who served with Bush to find out about his record?

[The Great Carouser]

Originally posted by Haggis:
Nicole,

"especially NOT to 13 people who were never there."

How did you get that from the article?

Perhaps this will clear up some misconceptions here...It seems just another case of the far Right cheap-labor conservatives botching a smear job...

Kerry war record smear

[haggis]

GC,
All that is still ad hominem, attacks on the messengers, not the message.

Once again, simple solution, The Kerry campaign needs to release his military records as Bush did.

goose=gander

[The Great Carouser]

Originally posted by Haggis:
GC,
All that is still ad hominem, attacks on the messengers, not the message.

Once again, simple solution, The Kerry campaign needs to release his military records as Bush did.

goose=gander

Haggis, all you need to do is turn off that filter many of you Republicans have on your browser and go take a 'gander' at:

Kerry's service records and more

Btw...is that Karl Rove and the rest of the CREEP's (Committee to Re-Elect the President) I hear moaning or is it the President as he stews in the saucepan?

<small>[ 08-10-2004, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: The Great Carouser ]</small>

[haggis]

GC,
He has not authorized the full release of his military records.

Those documents you refer to are little more than the "Citations to accompany..." awards you can get with a FOIA request.

Kerry refuses to release more records

"The day after John F. Kerry said he would make all of his military records available for inspection at his campaign headquarters, a spokesman said the senator would not release any new documents, leaving undisclosed many of Kerry's evaluations by his Navy commanding officers, some medical records, and possibly other material."

Bush released everything and he never made his military service an issue, his opponents did.

Kerry cites his record in Vietnam almost every time he opens his mouth and that makes that service a vaild issue to explore.

once again

Goose=gander