Social Security Crisis?

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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby OperaTenor » Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:36 pm

Hi Shap,

You're right, it's not a constitutional mandate. HOWEVER, I'd rather the system was abolished than what they propose to do. At least I'd be in control of risking my money on my own, not being forced to hand it over to someone else to put at risk.

What is being proposed is nothing but a scam, probably with the ultimate intention of providing another source of corporate welfare at the taxpayer's expense. This is nothing but stealing from everyone to give to the rich. Even simply allowing the current system to go broke is better than this.

Read the report. Prove to me that they are presenting repsonsible, balanced research.

I guess you can say GWB is definitely taking care of his consituency.

:puke:

I URGE ALL OF YOU TO CONTACT YOUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES AND TELL THEM YOU ARE AGAINST THIS "REFORM".

<small>[ 03-11-2005, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby Serenity » Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:03 am

[quote]Originally posted by RC:
[b] OT, do I have to be totally honest? I didn't read the entire thing as thoroughly as you did.

I did the typical hypocritical thing, took the knowledge I already had and applied it to skimming of the documents.

There was really little doubt in my mind that what you just posted was what it was all about. (I know that was very biased of me).

Ironically, I discovered quite by chance that my suggestion a couple of days ago is very close to what Clinton had propose. Maybe I was paying attention after all. :o :D
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby OperaTenor » Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:25 am

Hi Shap(again),

Another thing about that earlier blurb concerning guarantees. It wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't mentioned in the previous section that returns would be GUARANTEED.
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby OperaTenor » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:54 pm

Read the report. If you don't read the report, please take my word for it and contact your elected representatives and urge them to defeat this farce.

It's nothing but corporate welfare at the taxpayer's expense.

We'd be better off if the Social Security system was completely scrapped.
"To help mend the world is true religion."
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby Trumpetmaster » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:07 pm

Hey OT,
Only 88 beers, errr... posts for you to hit 5K!
But... who's counting??

:)
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby OperaTenor » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:12 pm

I'm not! ;)

Just remember, don't let this "reform" be enacted.
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby Trumpetmaster » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:18 pm

OT,
See that, now only 85! :)

I think you should be designated "Section Leader" at 5K.

Regards,
TM
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby OperaTenor » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:18 pm

Originally posted by OperaTenor:
Read the report. If you don't read the report, please take my word for it and contact your elected representatives and urge them to defeat this farce.

It's nothing but corporate welfare at the taxpayer's expense.

We'd be better off if the Social Security system was completely scrapped.
Just keeping the main message bumped.
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby barfle » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:38 pm

Originally posted by OperaTenor:
Just keeping the main message bumped.
And adding to your PW count. :roll:
--I know what I like--
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:08 am

Not exactly.

The five minute attention span limit seems to have been reached with this issue. It's falling off the news reports, and no one seems to care enough about how their tax money may be wasted to learn more about it or speak out. I'll keep yarking about it until someone else looks into it just to shut me up, if nothing else.

This may not render an immediate cost in human life like the Iraq lie has, but I feel it is the most bald-faced pack of bad lies the Bush administration has served up yet. It almost seems like they were betting that we as Americans don't have the patience or attention span to sift through the crap and see just what a loser of a "program" this is.

This is one instance where I really wish poeple would pay attention and stop hijacking this away from the real issue. This is more than just about Social Security: This is about the gross lack of integrity in our leaders, and whether or not we want to keep accepting it.

:mad:

<small>[ 03-17-2005, 03:10 AM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby Serenity » Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:22 am

Can I stop getting taxed for Social Security if I sign something stating I do not want it? I'd rather keep the money and invest it myself. Seeing how the baby boomers are aging, I would probably invest it in cat food and generic medicine.
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby Shapley » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:19 am

OT,

The horse is dead. Beating it won't help.

I think we've expressed our opinions thoroughly on this. I don't have time to read the report through, I content that you have interpreted the commissions opinions correctly.

I'm also content that you're wrong about the Administrations intentions. I have noticed many differences in what the media reports about the proposal and what the proposal states. I have read through the original proposal, as envisioned by the Cato Institute. I have not read whatever was proposed by the President, which I understand is based on the original, but differs somewhat. The President's proposal, as submitted to the two houses of Congress, will likely differ somewhat from his original proposal, and will be amended ad nauseum as it progresses from committee to house floor to full vote.

If the bills make it through the houses, a joint bill will have to be drafted, which will likely differ from both of the original measures. This will then be voted on and sent to the President for a signature. We're a long way from there.

I have read that some of the sponsors of the bill, reported by the media as "backing off of there support for bill", have in fact stated that this is false. The report came about because they were critical of the manner in which the President is selling the bill, not critical of the bill. In particular, they were upset that the President and the media were focusing on the private accounts aspect of the measure, which they veiw as only a small part of the total package. Private accounts alone, they point out, will not save the program.

Of course, neither will doing nothing.

I'm glad you're passionate about these issues, even if I think you're wrong. Write, if you must, to oppose the bill. Write, if you must, to support reforms you approve of, if there be any.
I will support or oppose those measures I'm passionate about, as well.

Good luck!

V/R
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby RC » Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:13 am

OK, I feel guilty.
Shap and OT, you're both right. We need to pay attention and lend whatever weight we have to what we believe is right.

For what it's worth, I'm on it OT.
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:37 am

Thanks, RC and Shap.

What astonishes me most is that it doesn't seem that anyone's read this report from any corner of the media. The contradictions in the document are self-evident, and should have been front page news for days. The atrocious "research" speaks for itself as well. I hesitate to even refer to it in those terms, because it isn't anywhere near complete.

It really is one big, poorly written sales pitch.

That GWB endorses it as the save-all solution is an indicator that he is either stupid or deceitful, not to mention the bipartisan stooges who concocted it.

JMNSHO.
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby haggis » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:11 pm

Oh well, reform it or not. Won't affect me. Can't say the say the same about our grandchildren, but since I don't have any.....
Haggis

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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby piqaboo » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:34 pm

Originally posted by Haggis:
Oh well, reform it or not. Won't affect me. Can't say the say the same about our grandchildren, but since I don't have any.....
Yet.
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby shostakovich » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:41 pm

I'm sure I wrote this before. Privatization undermines, rather than strengthens, SS. Also, the transition costs are enormous with no forseeable means of paying, since the T-word is not on the table. That means more borrowing. The dollar is sinking on the international market, and Bush is throwing it a rock. We've noticed gas prices going way up. I imagine a good part of that simply has to do with the dollar's decline. Can't blame the oil producers this time. Assuming the tanking dollar will also make other foreign products go up, electronics should soon be affected. It looks like Bush got some Arctic drilling thanks to oil prices. The guy makes bad pay off in more bad. He's phenominal.

I appreciate Shap's calm. The House and Senate bills for SS reform should differ from what Bush is hotly pushing around the country, but will they? What kind of bad can he come up with to precipitate success for his bad privatization proposal? I put nothing beyond his capability for destruction.
Shos
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby Shapley » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:16 am

Shos,

I felt the same way about Carter.

We survived, and flourished.

V/R
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby piqaboo » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:55 pm

Originally posted by Shapley:
Shos,

I felt the same way about Carter.

We survived, and flourished.

V/R
Shapley
Just possibly indicating you were wrong about Carter ??? :arched eyebrow:
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby Shapley » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:16 pm

No.

It is indicative of the fact that I was wrong about the ability of one man to destroy this nation.
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