Social Security Crisis?

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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby haggis » Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:34 pm

Off topic, but with gas prices hover around $2.00 here in Dallas I want one of you dyed in the wool Liberals to tell me why the prices are so high if Bush's war "was all about the oil"??

I'm bored and need to see if there is any inventiveness spin left in my favorite liberals. :D
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby piqaboo » Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:03 pm

oooh Shap, good spin! :awestruck icon:


good fit Haggies - you're bored and I'm annoyed. Lets have at it! :)
First of all, "around $2"??? QUIT WHINING!

Second - because OPEC is charging record prices per barrel, and because oil companies:
a) raise prices when oil prices go up, even if they are still selling gas from previously purchased inexpensive oil
b) keep prices high until they use up all the high-priced oil

So, why is OPEC charging high prices? Because they can.

Do we have access to Iraqi oil? Are we buying it? Are the oil fields being harvested again? Is it being transported? I have no idea, but since you are bored, you can google it and tell me. I know that at the end of last year the harvest had stopped because they couldnt transport the oil and the storage tanks were full.
[channeling OT]At least I feel sure that when it is available, we will buy it, at a very good price, so that the Iraqis will not benefit as much as they should from their liquidgold, but perhaps allowing our oil companies to make extra profit will somehow reimburse the gov't for the costs of liberating all the oil. [/end channeling OT]

Your turn. Im going back to work on the possessed database from hell. Know any exorcists who need work?

<small>[ 03-18-2005, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: piqaboo ]</small>
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby OperaTenor » Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:02 pm

Hi Haggis,

It's nice to be a favorite. :D

Just because "they" might be getting oil cheap may not mean they feel so philanthropic as to pass the savings along. Not that it would stop them, but there's no law against them making extra profit.
<How's that for spin?!!>
I pick oil to harp about because it's a logical brass ring. I don't have any proof, other than the reasoning that seems to shift like sand dunes we get from the GWB administration about the reasons we invaded Iraq, that oil is the our true objective. Even if it's not oil, I'm willing to bet the farm(perhaps it's a good thing I don't own one to bet - :D ) that our true intentions involve profit for some individuals or group who are beneficial to the GWB administration.
We don't seem to have dealt Al Qaeda the fatal blow to date. I still find it hard to believe, that with our awesome intelligence and military capabilities(in all seriousness), that those losers have managed to evade apprehension. That is, if we really had wanted to catch/kill them in the first place.
<No, this is not the time to lay blame at the feet of the Clinton administration. :p >
Despite all of the God-fearing and flag waving, this administration's intentions are far from altruistic.

:disappointed:
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby shostakovich » Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:38 am

One of my points is that the high gas prices ($2.11 down the street today) are because of the falling dollar. I think prices are up about 100% since Bush took office. I wonder if it went up that high in Euros.
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby The Great Carouser » Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:53 pm

Originally posted by Haggis:
Off topic, but with gas prices hover around $2.00 here in Dallas I want one of you dyed in the wool Liberals to tell me why the prices are so high if Bush's war "was all about the oil"??

I'm bored and need to see if there is any inventiveness spin left in my favorite liberals. :D
While it certainly doesn't exhaust the possibilities, Haggis, this website might provide one example: America For Sale
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby piqaboo » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:32 am

He's got 4 on the hook, but the fisherman has gone to sleep.....
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby Trumpetmaster » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:23 am

Remember last year (before the election)
Bush was pushing a "Tax Cut" to stimulate the American economy.

All of a sudden we all started getting more money in our paychecks. Nice at the time but, well, I had a feeling this was coming.

Just finished our taxes over the weekend and because "Less $$$" was withheld, not enough was taken out to cover the cost of what we owe to Uncle Sam.

We now have a nice little "Payback" to our government and this so called "Tax Cut" is going right back to the government.

This was political re-election fodder and I am more disappointed with the current administration as each day passes.

TM
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby RC » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:27 pm

I've been investigating all the different plans and reading all the op eds and got really confused. Apparently, I'm not the only one.
Because the—all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those—changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be—or closer delivered to what has been promised. Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled. Look, there's a series of things that cause the—like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate—the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those—if that growth is affected, it will help on the red."—Explaining his plan to save Social Security, Tampa, Fla., Feb. 4, 2005
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby RC » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:35 pm

Haggis,
Do you have any statistics handy for oil company profits 2004/2005?
That would be interesting.
A man is the sum of his actions, of what he has done, of what he can do, Nothing else.
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby OperaTenor » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:56 pm

Hi RC,

That was a verbatim quote from GWB?!!
No wonder they screen the attendees to his public appearances. Probably to make sure they're dumb enough not to question his "rhetoric".

When I read the commission report, I got the impression they used their tables and charts to prove support their calculations, and made assumptions to make their picture appear rosy.
I think the report speaks for itself - very badly.
It only attempts to give technical workings for their hypothesized solution - doesn't seek to prove its superiority or show any balance.
And then there's the bait and switch between sections 1 and 2.

As for oil company profits for the last couple of years, I seem to recall hearing reports of record quarterly profits from time to time. I certainly haven't heard about any losses.
"To help mend the world is true religion."
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby Marye » Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:22 pm

Originally posted by RC:
I've been investigating all the different plans and reading all the op eds and got really confused. Apparently, I'm not the only one.
Because the—all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those—changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be—or closer delivered to what has been promised. Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled. Look, there's a series of things that cause the—like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate—the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those—if that growth is affected, it will help on the red."—Explaining his plan to save Social Security, Tampa, Fla., Feb. 4, 2005
I am sorry... what language is this?
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby RC » Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:29 pm

Originally posted by Marye:
I am sorry... what language is this?
???

:D
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby RC » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:23 pm

Ha ha ha... It just occured to me that the quote sounds eerily like my kids trying to explain why they didn't get their homework done or why their teachers requested a conference...
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby OperaTenor » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:14 pm

It sounds like a weasel.
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby Serenity » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:20 am

It's DSL (Dubya as a Second Language).
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby Serenity » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:24 am

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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby The Great Carouser » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:44 am

More from the finger on the button....


"In this job you've got a lot on your plate on a regular basis; you don't have much time to sit around and wander, lonely, in the Oval Office, kind of asking different portraits, 'How do you think my standing will be?'" —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 16, 2005

"In terms of timetables, as quickly as possible — whatever that means." —George W. Bush, on his time frame for shoring up Social Security, Washington D.C., March 16, 2005

"This notion that the United States is getting ready to attack Iran is simply ridiculous. And having said that, all options are on the table." —George W. Bush, Brussels, Belgium, Feb. 22, 2005

"If you're a younger person, you ought to be asking members of Congress and the United States Senate and the president what you intend to do about it. If you see a train wreck coming, you ought to be saying, what are you going to do about it, Mr. Congressman, or Madam Congressman?" —George W. Bush, Detroit, Mich., Feb. 8, 2005

"Because the — all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those — changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be — or closer delivered to what has been promised. Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled. Look, there's a series of things that cause the — like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate — the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those — if that growth is affected, it will help on the red." —George W. Bush, explaining his plan to save Social Security, Tampa, Fla., Feb. 4, 2005

"You work three jobs? … Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." —George W. Bush, to a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005

"After all, Europe is America's closest ally." —George W. Bush, Mainz, Germany, Feb. 23, 2005

"I always jest to people, the Oval Office is the kind of place where people stand outside, they're getting ready to come in and tell me what for, and they walk in and get overwhelmed in the atmosphere, and they say, man, you're looking pretty." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Nov. 4, 2004
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby OperaTenor » Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:58 pm

Originally posted by Haggis:
Oh well, reform it or not. Won't affect me. Can't say the say the same about our grandchildren, but since I don't have any.....
Ever since I read that post, it's been niggling at me. It reminds me of the attitude expressed in Pastor Niemoller's poem concerning the Nazis:

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out--because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists
and I did not speak out--because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out--because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.


Perhaps overstated, but very eloquently addresses the apathy.
"To help mend the world is true religion."
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby piqaboo » Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:13 pm

Originally posted by Serenity:
It's DSL (Dubya as a Second Language).
Brilliant!
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Re: Social Security Crisis?

Postby piqaboo » Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:14 pm

oops :o

<small>[ 03-23-2005, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: piqaboo ]</small>
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