Jerry Springer comes to Air America Radio

[sadie]

I heard it, but now I've read it! The king of daytime trash TV takes his act to talk radio. He's supposed to be "liberal" but his TV shows have long exploited the very segment of society he claims to support.

I'm curious has anyone heard him on the radio yet? Is he on in New England?

[Marye]

I'm listening to him right now.... I hear him over the computer. I have no opinion right now.

His television show is tasteless but a great many television shows are just that. Isn't it on Fox?

[Shapley]

Air America's ratings have been in the tank for some time, and they've undergone some shake-ups in management recently. I guess they've finally decided that liberalism alone won't sell, so their probably going they way of trash TV to boost ratings.

They're not used to having to pay their own way in the world. Maybe they'll air Rush Limbaugh's show in the future.

V/R
Shapley

[OperaTenor]

Hi Shap, where do you get the notion AA's ratings are "in the tank". I just googled "air america ratings", and got a whole slew of articles stating the opposite, and not one supporting your statement. As a matter of fact, there were a couple of articles citing that Al Frankin was beating your Rush in urban markets such as New York and Chicago. Oh wait, we know those are flaming hotbeds of evil liberalism, so they don't count.......

While I'm at it....

Will someone please explain to me why it's evil to be "liberal"? To hear the neocon yarkers on AM wacko radio, "liberal" should become the eighth dirty word to be banned by the FCC.

Oh, and by the way, Shap, you and Jerry have something in common. Past political aspirations.

[Nicole Marie]

Shap... how wrong you are. Yes Air America did have trouble in the begining. (Conservatives like to keep talking about the trouble they had in the first quartet but fail to realize... it's time to move on.) Their books (ratings) over the past year (remember I'm in radio so we see the books every quarter) show the opposite. They are kicking the crap out out of other stations in their markets. They are in 53 markets in the US, heard online at http://www.airamericaradio.com/ They made a profit within the second quartet (which is unheard of in radio. It takes a station at least 3 to 4 quartets to turn a profit.)

As for Rush he's scared. Randi Rhodes is on in FL same time as him, and kills him in ratings. If you listen to Rush you may notices changing in the format, he's trying to keep up with her.

As for Jerry. Don't take the show as him. The TV show is a corporate run FOX TV show and he made a killing ($$$$) by doing mindless entertainment. But if you listen to him for a week, you'll see he is not what the FOX network put out.

[Shapley]

From Michele Malkin, March 5, 2005:

- Air America’s flagship station, WLIB-AM in New York, garnered a 1.2 share in the latest quarter, down 0.1 from the year-ago period. By comparison, WABC-AM, New York's leading conservative station, garnered a 3.8 share, up 0.1 from the year-ago period. WOR-AM, another conservative station, posted a 2.1 share, down 0.1 from the year-earlier period.

- Air America’s Boston station, WKOX-AM, got a tiny 0.6 share in the latest quarter, compared to a 4.3 share at WTKK-FM and a 4.0 share at WRKO-AM, both of which are conservative.

- Air America’s San Diego station, KLSD-AM, got a 1.9 share, up from 1.5 in the year-ago quarter. A respectable performance. By comparison, KOGO-AM, San Diego's conservative station, garnered a 5.5 share, up from 5.2 in the year-earlier period.

- Air America’s Philadelphia affiliate, WHAT-AM, garnered a 0.8 market share in the latest quarter, down 0.1 from the year-earlier period. By comparison, Philadelphia's conservative station, WPHT-AM, posted a 4.1 market share, up smartly from 3.2 in the year-earlier period.

- In Providence, Maloney reports, ratings at WHJJ-AM plunged after it replaced its conservative line-up with Air America, from a 3.5 share of the 12 and older audience to a 2.6 share. Meanwhile, Maloney says Providence's conservative station, WPRO-AM, “saw a surge during the survey period from a 4.4 to a 5.1 audience share.”

I'm sure some of Air America's supporters will point to particular shows that are successful with particular demographic subgroups. But so what if Al Franken is beating Rush Limbaugh among left-handed male eskimos between the ages of 35 and 54? The Arbitron numbers leave no doubt about the general trend: Air America is no match for conservative talk radio. Even in San Diego, where Air America is doing decently, its ratings are only a little more than one third that of the conservative competition.

In the past, Air America's defenders could argue with some justification that its low ratings were the inevitable result of starting from square one. But Air America's flagship station, WLIB-AM, has now been on the air for a full year. As Maloney suggests, it is no longer credible to blame the station's mediocre performance on the fact that it is new:

WLIB has now had a full year, a generous amount of time in broadcasting, to build an audience and figures are still flat compared with the previous niche Caribbean format the station featured. Often in radio that would mean imminent cancellation, but backers continue to be so noisy, they have generated enough industry hype to sustain poor performance a tad bit longer....
My contention is that if liberal talk radio can't find an audience in New York City, it certainly doesn't have a chance in San Antonio, Reno, Fresno and other places now gaining Air America stations that have small "progressive" populations.


Yep.

Update: Arbitron figures released this afternoon (March 2) show Air America's San Francisco station, KQKE-AM, garnering a 1.0 share in the latest quarter, down sharply from a 2.4 share in the same quarter a year ago. The slot switched from oldies to Air America last fall.

OT,

I did as you did. I googled "Air America" & "Ratings".

Once you scroll past Air Americas own hype, which was the first few listings, you'll find several pointing out that they are just hype.

BTW, He's not "my" Rush Limbaugh. I haven't heard his show in years. But he is still beating Frankin in nearly all markets where they go head-to-head.

V/R
Shapley

[Nicole Marie]

Shap, Michele Malkin is a CONSERSATIVE columnist/radio host. Way to find unbiased info. Shares (the ones posted above) are due to the SIZE OF THE RADIO FREQUENCY. Those stations sited are huge watt stations and in big markets. Air America is heard on small AM stations in those big markets, of course their share is low. But their demo is the largest in those markets. Understand the system before you post please.

Arbitron ratings don't follow one share. They do extensive break downs in markets that cover the following areas: General Listening, Black Listening, Female Listening, Hispanic Listening, Age Demo Studies, International, Commuter Information, Programming, Format-Specific, PPM, Internet and Multimedia, Internet Usage, Radio as an Investment, Advertising Effectiveness, Crisis Response and most important TIME SPENT LISTENING. (Note: Beethoven.com ranked 8th in time spent listening last quarter for internet stations. Which points out that there are several areas of radio where you can be #1 and dead last in another area. For example our AM station in Hartford is dead last in share of market but #1 in time spent listening. In radio there is no one winner and looser, it's not that clear cut.)

No station cares about their share of a market. Remember Arbitron was not developed for popularity, people out side the industry thinks its a popularity contest and damn FOX for lying to you about it. It was developed to tell you about your time spent listening, your demo, age group, programming and format. Those are the ratings stations care about. For two reasons 1- your sales staff can sell it to advertisers and 2- it tells you who our audience is.

Conservative stations demos are mostly white male. MOST ADERVERTISERS/STATIONS DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT DEMO FOR ONE REASON: RADAR 84 shows that, over the course of a typical week, radio reaches 95 percent of Black Persons 12+ and 96 percent of Hispanic Persons 12+; more than 28 million blacks and almost 31 million Hispanics. White males are the minority in radio listeners but make up the majority of conservative radio audience. They are not winning the ratings for demo, yes in share but not where it really counts... your audience.

<small>[ 04-13-2005, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: Nicole Marie ]</small>

[piqaboo]

Besides, its so much easier for conservatives to be outraged. There is so much more up with which they do not want to put.

Liberals get stuck admitting that occasionally the conservatives have a point, or that they are at least entitled to their own POV. Conservative TSHs dont allow liberals that much slack.

And then there is the very scary Dr L.

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by piqaboo:
And then there is the very scary Dr L.

What do you mean? I thought she typified "conservative".



PS. That nasty rumor that she, Rush, George Nory, and Tammy Bruce(oh, now there's another fine example!) are all doing rather unwholesome things together....................besides hosting radio shows, that is, still persists.

[Shapley]

Nicole,

The only other info citing numbers was by Franken himelf, not exactly an UNBIASED source.

You're welcome to post numbers, as I have done, if you wish. OT asked for evidence, I provided it.

V/R
Shapley

[Shapley]

Nicole,

You cited the fact that you are in radio as qualifications to dispute my statement, and you are a LIBERAL.

I linked to a person that is in radio, and should thus be qualified to support my statement, even though she is a CONSERVATIVE.

I didn't know CONSERVATIVE was such a bad word.

V/R
Shapley

[piqaboo]

Ah Shapley, its only as bad as LIBERAL is.

[Nicole Marie]

A stations numbers are in books not online. (I wish you really understood this. It's not a popularity contest, so Arbitron does not publicly publish numbers outside of radio. If a station whats to release they can but the info is for the benefit of the individual station and teh stations in that market.) I pulled the books for NYC. I don't have the time to sit and go through each market.

Demo: 25-54 year olds, Al Franken beat O'Reilly in ALL markets. (The NYC market books states ALL MARKETS which is weird since they rarely talk about another market in a specific book.) Franken posted a 2.6 share from 2 p.m. to 3 p.m.EST, compared with a 1.1 share for O'Reilly in the 25-54 demographic.

Janeane Garofalo and Sam Seder (Air America) is the #1 New York talk show among 25-54 year-olds in their time-slot, which is 8-11 PM in New York. Among 25-54 year-olds they scored 3.4 in New York beating WABC which has 2.2. with Dr L in the same time.

So how did Franken do against Rush in NYC market? Air America is on WLIB-1190 AM in NYC and beat Limbaugh's station, Disney-owned WABC, among both 25-to-54-year-olds and 18-to-34-year-olds during the 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. period (Frankens time). In the 25-to-54 demo Air America had a 3.4 share to WABC's 3.1. 18-to-34-year-olds, WLIB won with a 2.9 share to WABC's 0.4.

Looking at National numebers Rush has 14.5 million national weekly listeners, Sean Hannity has 12 million, and Howard Stern has 8.5 million. But Howard Stern is on WXRK-FM, Infinity in NYC. This station is number one in NYC. Once again showing his show is not number one but his station is... radio is not a win/loose thing.

Then I could break it down to women, education, minorities, income... it's more extensive then Fox will tell you. My point is, don't believe what you hear. Conservatives want you to think one thing but numbers really don't lie. Furthermore, I'm not getting into a pissing match with you over Conservative vs Liberal. Yes I'm liberal but would not back Air America in ratings if they did not have them. The fact is they do!

<small>[ 04-13-2005, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Nicole Marie ]</small>

[OperaTenor]

I'm pretty sure Al Franken didn't write these articles:

Air America grabs ratings

Air America, touching down in D.C.

America still on the air

The last one is most relevant, IMO, as it was published last week.

It hardly sounds like they're in the tank. It sounds more like they're hitting a wave.

BTW, FWIW, in the vein of "know the enemy", I listen to KOGO, aka the wacko loonie reactionary Sandy Eggo AM station, from time to time, perhaps even enough to concern my dear wife as to my sanity(although I rarely can listen to Rush - more than 20 seconds and I start feeling nauseous). One of the local features is one Roger Hedgecock, former mayor of Sandy Eggo with ties to big time financial scandal(can you say J. David?). Yet another conservative who is hardly a paragon of virtue, but nevertheless seems to be able to rally the fanatical fundamentalist crusaders.

<small>[ 04-13-2005, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>

[Haggis@wk]

single digit ratings are good? doesn't anyone get more than 10?

"and beat Limbaugh's station" but does he beat Limbaugh?

[piqaboo]

That "single digit" question is, I trust, a request for information and not an attempt to obfuscate the discussion. <arched eyebrow, borrowed from OrtTenorNot>

Do Franken and Limbaugh go head to head in a time slot anywhere in the country? Am curious.
I find them all annoying - liberal, conservative, etc. The ranting makes me nuts.

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by Haggis@wk:
single digit ratings are good? doesn't anyone get more than 10?

Sure, NPR!

Are you pointedly ignoring my "Who the heck is Godwin?" question, or did you just overlook it?

[Nicole Marie]

Haggis, it's all based on demo's. There is no one rating that says you are the best, above all the rest. One show could win with women but loose with men. It's not cut and dry.

Please carefuly read that paragraph about Rush. Franken beat Rush in the 25-to-54-year-olds and 18-to-34-year-olds. In other demos he did not. Is that good or bad? It depends on the direction that the individual station wants to take, the demo they are going for, the advertisers they want to attract. If Rush wants that age demo then he sucks. If he could careless then he wins. It's not we rock and you suck. I wish people would stop getting into pissing matches over ratings. But then you have to take it further and look at the format. Rush and Franken are talk radio, the prime market for that is not 12+, it's 25+ and that is where Franken wins. But then he fails in the 55+ market but that is mostly white males and Rush wins there. It's almost two totaly differnet monsters.

No one gets over a 10 in a big market. (Let me correct that almost no one.) Big markets are too big with too many stations. In a mid size market like Hartford for example our sister station gets a 23 share. But they are the only active rock station in the state so with no competition, they can only compete against the next biggest format which is top 40/urban. (They kick the crap out of some of those stations too in shares.)

<small>[ 04-13-2005, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Nicole Marie ]</small>

[Shapley]

OT,

The links you post aren't much help. The first link just says that they pulled in abotu 50% more listeners in their first two months on the air than the format they ditched did. Not all that impressive, especially when you consider that they won't tell us what the old format was, probably sports talk. [yawn]

The second link just announces that Air America is being picked up by a station in the D.C. area, where they tell us it is replacing sports talk. [yawn again]

The third one is simply praising them for still being alive. It points out that their demographics are different (younger, more females) than conservative radio's listeners, but they don't compare number for number, other than pointing out that they are on 52 stations, compared to 600 for Rush Limbaugh (I actually think that 600 number is old, and the number is now less than that, but I'm not sure. It's still over 500, or about 10X the station numbers that Air America is on)

The Malkin piece is significant because it seems to be the only one to cite historical data, i.e. a reduction in numbers in several markets, which is why I say they are in the tank. The numbers cited by Nicole can be found on Franken's site, and a number of others with the same data (probably supplied by Franken himself). If, as Nicole says, stations can pick and choose which numbers to release, then it is probably significant that those seem to be the only ones they've chosen to do so with.

If it isn't a popularity contest, though, why would Franken make such a deal out of "beating Rush"????

V/R
Shapley

[Nicole Marie]

Forget it Shap. You are an extremely frustrating person to have a converstation with (take that as a complement.) You can never admit there is another side to life. (Don't take that as a compliment.)

Of course Franken would release those numbers. Arbitron gave them great numbers! Christ if WTMI AM 1290 (our Hartford station) had those numbers I'd release them too.

And last you were the one getting your panites in a twist over this Rush vs Franken. "beating Rush" I'm just stating the Franken wins in some demos and not in others. Is it good or bad? Depends on the direction that station wants to head, what audience they want and who they want as advertisers.