Universal Health Coverage

Everyone loves a healthy debate. Post an idea or comment about a current event or issue. Let others post their ideas also. This area is for those who love to explore other points of view.

Moderator: Nicole Marie

Universal Health Coverage

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:23 pm

Monkeymdsb said it was probably a topic for another thread, so here it is.

I would love to hear what her research shows.

If OR actually pulls it off, that'll make three economic reasons to live there:

No sales tax
Incredibly low vehicle registration fees
Universal health care
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

http://www.one.org
OperaTenor
Patron
 
Posts: 10457
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Paradise with Piq & Altoid, southern California

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby pipergirl » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:38 pm

There would have to be a tradeoff of some sort. Higher property, employment, amusement, and/or school taxes? How would "universal" health care be defined? As a young woman with a chronic condition, my needs aren't the same as those of my neighbors across the hall or my elderly coworker. If the deal was "everybody gets coverage, but we dictate the details" that might not be so hot after all.

Or maybe the tradeoff would be merely annoying, like changing the state plant to poison ivy and requiring the Macarena to be played at all high school sporting events.
pipergirl
Section Player
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:01 am
Location: Lancaster, PA

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby Shapley » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:08 pm

Pipegirl,

Welcome to the B.com BB!

V/R
Shapley
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:24 pm

TANSTAAFL
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:37 pm

Originally posted by Haggis@wk:
TANSTAAFL
Where'd I put that cannon, Ed?
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby BigJon@Work » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:18 pm

Will illegal immigrants be covered under universal healthcare?
"I am a 12 foot lizard." GCR Jan 31, 2006
BigJon@Work
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 2252
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 12:01 am
Location: work. Duh!

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby OperaTenor » Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:21 am

Originally posted by BigJon@Work:
Will illegal immigrants be covered under universal healthcare?
I suppose it would be similar to the way it is currently.

What would you propose we do, tell 'em "tough luck"?
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

http://www.one.org
OperaTenor
Patron
 
Posts: 10457
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Paradise with Piq & Altoid, southern California

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby Shapley » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:10 am

Under the current system, they receive the basic level of health care, which is humane. Under universal health care, they will be entitled to all the resources our pocketbooks can provide.

I think I prefer the current system. We give them bread, let them pay for cake.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:50 am

Hi OT-

Yes tell them tough luck. Sorry but this is one issue that gets me fired up. My family came here legally from Italy. My husband came here legally from Portugal. Why should illegals get the benefits of those that are legal because they decided to break the law? Plus the broader towns that deal with large numbers of illegals are having their hospitals flooded and these towns have to pick up the cost. Some hospitals have had to shut down because of this.

On another note - I benefit from free health care from Portugal. (In Portugal when you marry a Portuguese citizen you automatically become one too.) The plan in Portugal is that I can go to a doctor when ever I want, I can be treated for long term care... basically take part in the cake benefits mentioned above. But of course Portugal has a smaller population, and high car taxes that pay for this (23%) and property taxes too. So if my insurance here will not cover something I can go there and get.
H.R.H. Nicole Marie
Eve was Framed
Nicole Marie
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1843
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Hartford CT

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby OperaTenor » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:24 pm

Hi Shap,

I think a universal health care system can be devised such that illegals would get the the same basic humane care they get now and nothing more. That was kind of the point of my statement.

Hi Y.R.H.,

Having lived near the Mexican border most of my life, I share your frustration with illegal immigration, but my point regarding the "tough luck" comment is that we simply can't leave an illegal lying injured in a pool of blood in the middle of the street just because he's an illegal, can we?

As for other medical services that get abused, such as delivering babies, I don't understand why we don't bill the Mexican gov't(the worst offender is Mexico, right?) for the services rendered, whatever the system we operate under. That's something that could be done unilaterally(what're they gonna do, declare war on us?). Additionally, I think there could be a cost effective way of transferring patients to Mexican health care providers as soon as it would be medically feasible.

I think there are several practical solutions to address the problem that are cost effective, fair and humane.

<small>[ 02-17-2006, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

http://www.one.org
OperaTenor
Patron
 
Posts: 10457
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Paradise with Piq & Altoid, southern California

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby piqaboo » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:48 pm

originally posted by Nicole Marie:
of course Portugal has a smaller population, and high car taxes that pay for this (23%) and property taxes too. So if my insurance here will not cover something I can go there and get [it].
Even tho you dont pay taxes into their system, you'd fly over and take advantage of it for high-cost treatment?
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:04 pm

Piq- I do pay into the system. My husband and I own property there - a home, a piece of undeveloped land and a car. I pay taxes - I get to use the medical system. My attitude towards immigration is so entrenched that I would never be hypocritical.

OT - I'm not say don't treat someone with an emergency condition but the bulk of what we pay for is basic health care and non-emergency. I'd love if Mexico would pay their fair share. I know a prison in Texas recently sent a bill to Mexico for the cost of housing Mexican prisoners and Mexico still has not paid. Fox's comments and actions will never allow an equal footing for the US when it comes to his citizens.
H.R.H. Nicole Marie
Eve was Framed
Nicole Marie
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1843
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Hartford CT

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:05 pm

<small>[ 02-17-2006, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Nicole Marie ]</small>
H.R.H. Nicole Marie
Eve was Framed
Nicole Marie
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1843
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Hartford CT

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby Shapley » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:24 pm

OT,

RE:I think a universal health care system can be devised such that illegals would get the the same basic humane care they get now and nothing more.

Wouldn't that negate the use of the word Universal?

V/R
Shapley
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby OperaTenor » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:59 pm

Not for U.S. citizens and legal residents.
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

http://www.one.org
OperaTenor
Patron
 
Posts: 10457
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Paradise with Piq & Altoid, southern California

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:11 pm

The New York Times

reports that the Canadian system is imploding. A recent Canadian Supreme Court decision allowed private health care (oh, the shame, the horror) and as a result, Canadians tired of waiting for radiation therapy, eye surgery and hip replacements have turned toward private alternatives springing up under the new legal environment.

Remember, this article is by that notoriously right wing NYT and needs to be taken with a grain of salt……..
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:30 pm

Thanks for the article, Haggis. I'm not sure that this counts as an implosion, but it does sound like there is a fair amount of improvement needed there. Waits of weeks for an oncologist, or months for joint surgery, do sound unacceptable.

(Still looking for perfection, seems a little hard to find.)
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby piqaboo » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:45 pm

Waiting weeks to see an oncologist, months for joint surgery....

That happens here too. I know a woman who was kept waiting 2 months between them notifying her of her diagnosis, and her first visit with an oncologist. She's a teacher and the school district has an HMO plan. The time would have been longer but she got a lawyer friend to send a nastygram.

Another friend was diagnosed with an ovarian cyst on the verge of rupture, told to 'take things easy' and put on the schedule for surgery, in 3 months. She's in bio-tech, so its not a matter of gov't insurance programs. (We biotechnerds tend to be well covered. Its the tradeoff for asking us to work with infectious samples day in and out).

A third friend had a fall, needed knee surgery. No health insurance. Couldnt get the surgery til he made a 10% downpayment (seems reasonable to me). The unreasonable part - he couldnt get a QUOTE for the surgery. He spent two weeks just trying to find out how much money they wanted, so he could pay and get his knee fixed.

No place is perfect, no matter how you pay for your coverage.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: Universal Health Coverage

Postby OperaTenor » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:51 pm

Socialized medicine's been on the verge of implosion for what, ~20 years now? Certainly a lot longer than GWB's been "doin' a heckuva job".

Maybe they ought to just get it over with and implode, for Pete's sake.....

:roll:

A little post script to Piq's anecdotes: the third guy doesn't have health insurance because he can't qualify for it, but you wouldn't know it to look at him. Great free market y'all got...

<small>[ 02-27-2006, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

http://www.one.org
OperaTenor
Patron
 
Posts: 10457
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Paradise with Piq & Altoid, southern California

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:55 am

Its a measure of the respect I hold for Milton Friedman's opinions that causes me to post about this book. The Cure: How Capitalism Can Save American Health Care by David Gratzer

From the Back Cover
"David Gratzer is a practicing psychiatrist who combines firsthand knowledge of medical practice in both his native Canada and the U.S. with an independent point of view and a rare capacity for lucid exposition of complex technical material. . . If you want a well-written, interesting yet authoritative and thorough account of what is wrong with medicine today and how to cure American health care, this is the book for you."


Milton Friedman, Nobel Laureate, Economics (from foreword to The Cure)

"The Cure is a must read for all students of health care policy. Dr. Gratzer correctly diagnoses the U.S. health care system's problems and proposes workable solutions to fix them. His ideas will help reign-in costs while, at the same time, preserve necessary incentives for quality-of-life enhancing innovations."


I'll see if our local library has it, in the meantime there's a audio interview of Doctor Gratzer here
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Next

Return to The Debate Team

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron