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[Serenity]

Local Area Networks in Australia and NZ are known as
the LAN down under.

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by dai bread:

What did you have in mind when you asked the question?

I was being a smart-aleck. A couple of folks in previous posts made it sound like people in countries with more social government structure were contributing against their will, to the point of being forced "at gunpoint" to pay their taxes to support the welfare state.

[dai bread]

Well, you either pay a Govt. or pay a private provider. I don't see any difference. At least with the govt. I get a say every 3 years in who forms it. I get no say in the management of a private provider.

Some people get very upset at the notion of a govt. looking after its people. It's a view I have only mild sympathy for. As I've said elsewhere, I've worked for both the public & the private sector and both are normally badly managed.

Serenity, I like it! From New ZeaLAN

<small>[ 03-04-2005, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: dai bread ]</small>

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by dai bread:
Well, you either pay a Govt. or pay a private provider. I don't see any difference. At least with the govt. I get a say every 3 years in who forms it. I get no say in the management of a private provider.

The main difference I see here is it is an absolute that our net outlay would be less paying the gov't instead of private providers.

However, the perspective you share about choice is one no one even talks about here. Great point!

[dai bread]

Something I thought of after I'd posted the above: governments don't go broke.

[piqaboo]

Originally posted by dai bread:
Something I thought of after I'd posted the above: governments don't go broke.

I beg to differ. Many south american gov's and african gov's have gone quite broke.

[Serenity]

Yeah....the "rulers or presidents" have milked as much money as they could to build nice mansions in other countries and swell their "retirement accounts". Nepotism is usually rampant too.

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by dai bread:
Something I thought of after I'd posted the above: governments don't go broke.

GWB's certainly putting that axiom to the test.

[dai bread]

Well, o.k. about the African & S.A. govts. But would you like to rely on private providers there either?

I'd make sure I had everything covered off-shore if I lived in one of those countries.

I believe S.A. is coming right now, so maybe we're too hard on them.

As for GWB, don't even think about that! If the U.S. catches cold to that extent, the rest of us go back to the stone age.

[OperaTenor]

There has been speculation here in recent weeks, pondering the net result of our trade partners calling our debts to them, primarily Asia. It is theorized that the only thing keeping it from happening are the astronomical sums we owe Japan and China. Apparently, if they were to call their repsective debts, we would be unable to pay, and they would be stuck.

I'm no economist, but I can't help feeling that having that lopsided of an imbalance with no end in sight is a disaster waiting ot happen on the scale of the collapse fo the global economy.

<small>[ 03-05-2005, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>

[Giant Communist Robot]

I know the Japanese attend US Treasury auctions like clockwork, and apparently never met a gov't debt instrument they didn't like--but do the Chinese do this as well?

I know we have a big trade imbalance with China, but this is not debt. All those goods are paid for.

Consider the effects of foreigners buying US govt. securities against the trade deficit--I can't give any figures, but there is some offset there. I suspect the imbalance is not as grim as it looks. We have money going out to buy goods, and money coming in to buy govt debt issue.

As far as calling in those debts--well, the terms of sale specify the payment schedules, so they're just gonna have to wait.

[OperaTenor]

And then there's that other ominous sign of weakness of the dollar: Drug dealers and other monied criminal enterprises have started dumping the dollar in favor of the euro for their cash holdings.



<small>[ 03-14-2005, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Eh? What's that, OT? You're either upset that the dollar is being discriminated against by criminals, or you're mocking the euro, or mocking the dollar, or

I'm confused.

[Giant Communist Robot]

Weak dollar makes US goods and services more attractive

and

makes it harder to add to the trade deficit

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by Selma in Sandy Eggo:
I'm confused.

Of course ou're confused, you're a soprano!



Hi Mad John,

But doesn't the weak dollar also make it more difficult to dig ourselves out?

This glass is half empty....

[Giant Communist Robot]

I think these things move in cycles, but here's one scenario:

weak dollar brings in more foreign money

business expands, economy heats up, some inflation set in

payback is cheaper

[Giant Communist Robot]

None of this trade imbalance or debt stuff worries me as much as oil

[OperaTenor]

[snark] Of course, this also is predicated that we would have something the rest of the world wants, right? Let's see...........raw materials? Mmmm, nope. Finished goods? Wellll, lots of our former manufacturing has "outsourced" overseas, so that's probably not it, either......................Produce? Wait, weren't those Chilean pears I saw at the grocery store the other day?! Perhaps not that, either.

War? That's probably a good export for us. We seem to have an aptitude for it, but it doesn't seem to be very profitable. [/snark]

What worries you about oil? Our dependance on it? Or what we seem to be willing to do to get it?

[Giant Communist Robot]

Don't be such a pessimist, OT! We do have things the world wants, such as:

Soybeans!

70% of the world's beans are grown here. The Chinese come in droves to buy barges of the stuff. Almost all that tofu they eat in Asia comes from US beans. 3M also holds the patent on the ReadyRoundUp bean. The best bean! Better yields, less work, disease and drought resistant; does not produce seed---those must be purchased from 3M.

Just an example.

Oil is a problem. With growing economies in Europe, US, and China coupled with declining reserves no painless solution is easy. OPEC must be near max capacity now. Exploration is finding new fields, but they are inadequate.

What we are willing to do for it is pay more. We haven't taken any fields from anyone, nor have we drilled at those sites in Alaska. Oil companies make record profits when the price is high, so they have no incentive to sell cheap oil. They like things the way they are, for the moment.

[piqaboo]

originally posted by nameless cipher:
ReadyRoundUp bean. The best bean! Better yields, less work, disease and drought resistant; does not produce seed....

Am so very confused. What exactly is a bean, if its not a seed? How can a seedless soybean plant make edible soybeans? What makes it worth while to the farmer?

We also supply a fair share of the sea urchin market. :roll eyes: